Protected by their parents

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Protected by their parents

Postby nem » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:29 pm

From MN 41:

"Abandoning sexual misconduct, one abstains from sexual misconduct; he does not have intercourse with women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives, who have a husband, who are protected by law, or with those already engaged"

What is your understanding of the bold text?

I'm thinking of a certain 27 year old woman that I know, whose (very traditional Catholic) parents threaten to disown her if she has sex before marriage... even though everyone knows she must be. Even if she was 80 years old, and finally had sex but was not married, still her parents would want to disown her for this.

So by having sex with her in the context of a committed relationship, would someone be breaking the precept on sexual misconduct? From my perspective, the woman's parents are just control freaks, and what do their likes or dislikes have to do with sexual misconduct, or a fundamental precept in practicing the Dhamma.

In a literal sense....They could be opposed to her having sex within marriage, and still it could be said the husband is breaking the precept? Having sexual misconduct because he's having sex with his own wife and the family does not approve of him or is protecting her? They'll be protecting her with regards to being involved with men, her whole life, that is apparent. She's had only 3 boyfriend and had to hide the fact that she had them. Her parents assume that someone is going to come and sit in the parlor a few times, make small talk, and then marry her without even going out of the house with her (because, if she's out on the street with a man, then she must be sneaking off to have sex with him). Yes, I'm serious, that's how they think.

I think I'm missing something from Indian cultural context...what does it mean "women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives"?
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Re: Protected by their parents

Postby Cittasanto » Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:45 pm

nem wrote:From MN 41:

"Abandoning sexual misconduct, one abstains from sexual misconduct; he does not have intercourse with women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives, who have a husband, who are protected by law, or with those already engaged"

What is your understanding of the bold text?

I'm thinking of a certain 27 year old woman that I know, whose (Catholic) parents threaten to disown her if she has sex before marriage... even though everyone knows she must be. Even if she was 80 years old, and finally had sex but was not married, still her parents would want to disown her for this.

So by having sex with her in the context of a committed relationship, would someone be breaking the precept on sexual misconduct? From my perspective, the woman's parents are just control freaks, and what do their likes or dislikes have to do with sexual misconduct, or a fundamental precept in practicing the Dhamma.

In a literal sense....They could be opposed to her having sex within marriage, and still it could be said the husband is breaking the precept? Having sexual misconduct because he's having sex with his own wife and the family does not approve of him or is protecting her? They'll be protecting her with regards to being involved with men, her whole life, that is apparent. She's had only 3 boyfriend and had to hide the fact that she had them. Her parents assume that someone in going to come and sit in the parlor a few times, make small talk, and then marry her without even going out of the house with her (because, if she's out on the street with a man, then she must be sneaking off to have sex with him). Yes, I'm serious, that's how they think.

I think I'm missing something from Indian cultural context...what does it mean "women who are protected by their mother, father, mother and father, brother, sister, or relatives"?

that would possibly be someone who is under the parental guardianship. the law here as we understand it today is not what is being referred to, rather, it is someone who is still under guardianship.

However, if anyone wishes to engage in a full relationship with someone neither should not be pushed or pressured into anything, as that would still be sexual misconduct.

Whatever everyone else may think they know is irrelevant, particularly when it comes to what others think or do. What is relevant is that sexual lust is a gross hindrance, and a big issue in relationships lack of longevity. if someone wants to be with someone sex is far from the pinnacle of being with them.
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Re: Protected by their parents

Postby DAWN » Sun Dec 09, 2012 2:26 am

It mean that the one who want sex with a woman, have to be sure to not harm any body by this act.

If the one have a sex with a woman wich is protected by their parents - it's a harming act for the parents, it harm parents; and by this harm, such sexual activity is preached by Lord Budhha to be wrong.
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Re: Protected by their parents

Postby nibbuti » Sun Dec 09, 2012 3:42 am

Hi nem. These kind of rules are worldly, thus local law and common sense can be applied. Usually, "protection by parents" goes until full age is reached in modern society or until one is married in traditional society. That is 16 or 18, either way, depending on where you live. Catholicism is optional.
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Re: Protected by their parents

Postby DAWN » Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:23 am

Perfect morality.

Not harm anyone - this is what Buddha preach. :meditate:

No sensual lust that rule this body - no problemo.
No child that we want to be like us - no problemo.
No ignorance - no problemo.

Friendly.


SN 35.127
"Great king, this was said by the Blessed One who knows & sees, worthy and rightly self-awakened: 'Come now, monks: with regard to women who are old enough to be your mother, establish the attitude you would have toward your mother. With regard to women who are old enough to be your sister, establish the attitude you'd have toward a sister. With regard to women who are young enough to be your daughter, establish the attitude you'd have toward a daughter.' This is one reason, this is one cause, great king, why young monks — black-haired, endowed with the blessings of youth in the first stage of life — without having played with sensual pleasures nevertheless follow the lifelong chaste life, perfect & pure, and make it last their entire lives."
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