If there is no self, no I , no soul.... I'm still a little wrapped up with what actually is reborn at death??????? Can anyone answer this? What might be reborn in another realm if anything?
with metta
what gets reborn
- badscooter
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- Location: New Jersey
what gets reborn
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
- Polar Bear
- Posts: 1348
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Re: what gets reborn
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Consciousness is the what. Although it is not one consciousness but rather one moment or event of consciousness conditions the next. However, consciousness is not self because it is impermanent and unsatisfactory. If consciousness were self then self would arise and pass away thousands of times a day.
EDIT: Craving is the sustenance for consciousness to continue and kamma provides the field or range of possibilities for consciousness to re-arise in some other realm. Not saying I believe all that just that if you read the suttas this is what they point to.
Consciousness is the what. Although it is not one consciousness but rather one moment or event of consciousness conditions the next. However, consciousness is not self because it is impermanent and unsatisfactory. If consciousness were self then self would arise and pass away thousands of times a day.
EDIT: Craving is the sustenance for consciousness to continue and kamma provides the field or range of possibilities for consciousness to re-arise in some other realm. Not saying I believe all that just that if you read the suttas this is what they point to.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
- Polar Bear
- Posts: 1348
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 7:39 am
Re: what gets reborn
Some suttas to read:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't be confused like Sati the Fisherman's son though:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You may also be interested in reading the Paradox of Becoming:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... coming.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Don't be confused like Sati the Fisherman's son though:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
You may also be interested in reading the Paradox of Becoming:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... coming.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
Re: what gets reborn
I heard a monk explain death and rebirth by comparing it to faxing a document.Billymac29 wrote:If there is no self, no I , no soul.... I'm still a little wrapped up with what actually is reborn at death??????? Can anyone answer this? What might be reborn in another realm if anything?
with metta
Is the document that was sent from one machine identical to the one that was received in the other? Yes.
But is the document that was received the one that was sent? No.
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
- Location: America
Re: what gets reborn
Another way to think of it is a billiard ball hitting another ball - nothing is transferred except direction and speed.SDC wrote:I heard a monk explain death and rebirth by comparing it to faxing a document.Billymac29 wrote:If there is no self, no I , no soul.... I'm still a little wrapped up with what actually is reborn at death??????? Can anyone answer this? What might be reborn in another realm if anything?
with metta
Is the document that was sent from one machine identical to the one that was received in the other? Yes.
But is the document that was received the one that was sent? No.
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... ebirth.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
Re: what gets reborn
Nice. I like that one.LonesomeYogurt wrote:Another way to think of it is a billiard ball hitting another ball - nothing is transferred except direction and speed.
http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... ebirth.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
Re: what gets reborn
Why assume that something of individual consciousness cant extend over multiple physical lifetimes? Where does your consciousness go when you sleep? What if you slept permanently, as whom would you awaken?
“The truth knocks on the door and you say, "Go away, I'm looking for the truth," and so it goes away. Puzzling.” ― Robert M. Pirsig
Re: what gets reborn
Hi Billy. No 'candles', 'balls', 'streams' and personalities. It is only ignorance and desire that actually is born again and dies. More thorough explanation here.Billymac29 wrote:If there is no self, no I , no soul.... I'm still a little wrapped up with what actually is reborn at death??????? Can anyone answer this? What might be reborn in another realm if anything?
Re: what gets reborn
In the words of someone infamous, (depends on who you're asking...), just this: neurosiswhat actually is reborn at death???????
Re: what gets reborn
In fact rebirth may not be accurate. Every moment there is an arising or birth followed by death/cessation. So there is birth/death/birth/death etc. There is no thing to be re-born or no re anything.“He who is reborn, Nāgasena, is he the same person or another?”
“Neither the same nor another.”
“What is it, Nāgasena, that is reborn?”
“Mind and matter.”
“Is it this very mind and matter that is reborn?”
“No, it is not, but by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”
“Give me an illustration.”
“It is like a fire that a man might kindle and, having warmed himself, he might leave it burning and go away. Then if that fire were to set light to another man’s field and the owner were to seize him and accuse him before the king, and he were to say, ‘Your majesty, I did not set this man’s field on fire. The fire that I left burning was different to that which burnt his field. I am not guilty.’ Would he deserve punishment?”
“Indeed, yes, because whatever he might say the latter fire resulted from the former one.”
“Just so, O king, by this mind and matter deeds are done and because of those deeds another mind and matter is reborn; but that mind and matter is not thereby released from the results of its previous deeds.”
Milindapanha
And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.
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- Joined: Wed Dec 26, 2012 10:49 pm
Re: what gets reborn
The falsely existing ego, which is labelled as ignorance in twelve nidanas. When we realise experiantally that it was like a dream, then there's nothing to reborn anymore. I guess.
What do you guys think?
What do you guys think?
- badscooter
- Posts: 406
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 1:07 am
- Location: New Jersey
Re: what gets reborn
so if i die... say something goes to a ghost realm or animal realm.. its not "me" going anywhere but my desires and cravings? or is it my conscious?
"whatever one frequently thinks and ponders upon will be the inclination of one's mind"
Re: what gets reborn
Sort of...I guess (this is mere speculation)...what is happening here will continue to happen somewhere else.Billymac29 wrote:so if i die... say something goes to a ghost realm or animal realm.. its not "me" going anywhere but my desires and cravings? or is it my conscious?
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3
- LonesomeYogurt
- Posts: 900
- Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
- Location: America
Re: what gets reborn
But it's not "you" here right now. There is no "you"; there's just a process. That process continues. There will be experience, and on the conventional level, you might say that "you" experience it, but in reality there's only the five aggregates, dying and being reborn every moment.Billymac29 wrote:so if i die... say something goes to a ghost realm or animal realm.. its not "me" going anywhere but my desires and cravings? or is it my conscious?
Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.
Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.
His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta
Stuff I write about things.
Re: what gets reborn
LY with the evil post count
EDIT - HA! and mine's 555
EDIT - HA! and mine's 555
“Life is swept along, short is the life span; no shelters exist for one who has reached old age. Seeing clearly this danger in death, a seeker of peace should drop the world’s bait.” SN 1.3