what gets reborn

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation
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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Mon Jan 21, 2013 9:33 pm

Nobody has the slightest idea how anything material could be conscious.

we are still trapped in outmoded cartesian categories. even though we haven't figured out consciousness, we can have a strong (if vague) idea of what it might look like when we do.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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kirk5a
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 22, 2013 12:56 am

convivium wrote:
Nobody has the slightest idea how anything material could be conscious.

we are still trapped in outmoded cartesian categories. even though we haven't figured out consciousness, we can have a strong (if vague) idea of what it might look like when we do.

Such as?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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polarbuddha101
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby polarbuddha101 » Tue Jan 22, 2013 1:17 am

Convivium is basically just repeating John Searle verbatim. So you may want to go to the source to understand convivium's point kirk because Searle will explain it more thoroughly.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... ruepqOLPBk


http://www.google.com/#hl=en&sugexp=les ... 80&bih=616
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."

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kirk5a
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby kirk5a » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:01 am

polarbuddha101 wrote:Convivium is basically just repeating John Searle verbatim. So you may want to go to the source to understand convivium's point kirk because Searle will explain it more thoroughly.

Thanks for that. I did read the wikipedia article on biological naturalism. Can't say I'm up to hours of video. I was hoping for a summary of whatever Convivium meant by "a strong (if vague) idea of what it might look like" (when we figure out consciousness). I didn't see that.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

Nyana
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Nyana » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:17 am

convivium wrote:we are still trapped in outmoded cartesian categories. even though we haven't figured out consciousness, we can have a strong (if vague) idea of what it might look like when we do.

Maybe, but collapsing experience into neurological processes and declaring causal closure hasn't resolved the issue, and there are scientists and philosophers who think that this reductivism (which includes a number of so-called "non-reductive" approaches) is part of the problem. Thus, there's good reason to think outside of these reductivist boxes. John Searle, quoted in the Journal of Consciousness Studies:

    At our present state of the investigation of consciousness, we don't know how it works and we need to try all kinds of different ideas.

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Anagarika
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby Anagarika » Tue Jan 22, 2013 2:52 am

I looked up the Journal of Consciousness and read this article: "The (Sum of n)=n Concept And the Quantitative Support for the Cerebral-Holographic and Electromagnetic Configuration of Consciousness" and now my brain hurts.

nonik
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby nonik » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:09 am

I don't know. :)

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convivium
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby convivium » Tue Jan 22, 2013 3:19 am

i've studied a lot with searle at berkeley and am starting a graduate seminar w/him tomorrow. so yeah, i'm kind of biased (searle bashes almost everyone). i agree with a lot of what he says but not all of it.
Just keep breathing in and out like this. Don't be interested in anything else. It doesn't matter even if someone is standing on their head with their ass in the air. Don't pay it any attention. Just stay with the in-breath and the out-breath. Concentrate your awareness on the breath. Just keep doing it. http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Just_Do_It_1_2.php

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gavesako
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Re: what gets reborn

Postby gavesako » Tue Jan 22, 2013 8:40 am

Rebirth and Not-Rebirth in Buddhism - Ashin Ottama

Published on Jan 21, 2013
Last 25 minutes of this video present new understanding of 'afterlife'. Jump directly to position 01:01:55.
CONTENTS of the video:
00:30 The epicenter of original Buddha's Message
07:10 God-Creator versus the Buddha
10:40 Karma, Rebirth, Samsara, Bhumi
24:00 Buddhism without beliefs
27:25 Here-and-Now against the 'Dharma-cake'
30:55 Additions and later created teachings
36:05 Spiritual 'landscape' with many peaks
39:26 Ajahn Buddhadasa
53:40 Rebirth and Samsara in the Scriptures
1:01:55 Indications for rebirth
1:03:00 Children's memories, tapping collective memory
1:07:05 Unreliable hypnoses and regressions
1:12:00 Mind undocked from brain
1:16:20 Near Death Experiences
1:18:15 Sweat-through pajamas
1:20:50 New understanding of 'afterlife'

This video is a Buddhist Dharma-talk, but the last half-hour is highly recommendable to all thoughtful people: it points to the unexpected nature and reality of 'afterlife'.

http://youtu.be/RGeTBmRqpfY
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

ajahnchah.org - Teachings of Ajahn Chah in many languages
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