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Magick and Buddhism - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Magick and Buddhism

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
danieLion
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:01 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:05 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:09 am


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BlackBird
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby BlackBird » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:19 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

Nyana
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby Nyana » Sat Mar 23, 2013 2:16 pm


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manas
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby manas » Sat Mar 23, 2013 7:54 pm

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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LonesomeYogurt
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:38 pm

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:52 pm

Nana and manas,

Finally someone has something intelligent to say.

Nana,

I think you're generally right. However, he, at times thought of Buddhism as part of the Yellow Path (I posted about this earlier in this thread--the reference was to three chapters in Magick Without Tears). Furthermore, he qualified his views on the black, white and yellow paths in two ways: (1) they failed to express anything spiritually ultimate as linguistic conventions (the same problem exists for any relgion, including Buddhism--the Buddha ackowledges this repeatedly--, where ineffable experiences are impossible to put into words); and (2) all three paths themselves were inseperable at some point and that crucial and pivotal aspect was the practitioner's intention. For Buddhists this should make sense because even temporary releases from dukkha produce JOY; and JOY (cf. the seven factors) and it's family members, piti, sukkha, etc..., are part of The Path.

I'm not sure what you mean by "temporary cessation state." They were not permanent for the Buddha or subsequent arahants; otherwise, they wouldn't have been able to teach.

As far as whether or not Crowley actually engaged The Path and what he actually attained or didn't, neither of us are (or anyone for that matter) qualified to judge (and as far as his "rebirth" is concerned--we best not start pulling on that string again). It's a matter of faith. You can either beleive him or not. That's a personal choice. But, as he said in Book 4, "Don't believe me. Find out for yourself" (I'm paraphrasing). This is the same attitude the Buddha took in MN 47, Vimamsaka Sutta.

Speaking of the Majjhima Nikaya, in MN 56, Upali Sutta we find a distinction being made between bad magicians and good magicians and the Buddha being aligned with good magicians--to which he does not protest. Furthermore, the sutta descriptions of supernormal powers, psychic powers, knowledge of rebirth, etc... are acknowledged in most modern Magickal systems as valid, and utilized as (sub-)goals of practice in several of them.


manas,

I've addressed your comments above except I would add that I agree that the Buddha never taught that life is suffering but rather that there is much suffering in life (I follow Thanissaro (et al) here--see his Refuge). I think Crowley's interpretation of dukkha is in line with this, which you can find our for yourself if you investigate the ciatations I've provided.

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:20 pm


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby danieLion » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:25 pm


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LonesomeYogurt
Posts: 900
Joined: Thu Feb 23, 2012 4:24 pm
Location: America

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby LonesomeYogurt » Sun Mar 24, 2013 12:05 am

Gain and loss, status and disgrace,
censure and praise, pleasure and pain:
these conditions among human beings are inconstant,
impermanent, subject to change.

Knowing this, the wise person, mindful,
ponders these changing conditions.
Desirable things don’t charm the mind,
undesirable ones bring no resistance.

His welcoming and rebelling are scattered,
gone to their end,
do not exist.
- Lokavipatti Sutta


User avatar
BlackBird
Posts: 1925
Joined: Fri Apr 17, 2009 12:07 pm
Location: New Zealand

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby BlackBird » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:07 am

"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:30 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby danieLion » Sun Mar 24, 2013 1:40 am

All:

I'm not a Crowley apologist.

In the book Getting To Yes, we find that a basic tenet of negotiation is to insist on objective criteria.

If you've not read Perdurabo, it is pointless for me to discuss Crowley with you.

It qualifies as the most objective account of Crowley's life to date. In it you will find not only many of his misbehaviors illustrated but also much of the misunderstandings people have about him exposed as baseless.

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mikenz66
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Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Mar 24, 2013 3:45 am


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Viscid
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Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby Viscid » Sun Mar 24, 2013 6:13 am

For the uninitiated, is there a good Crowley documentary or resource you'd particularly recommend? I think I have a general sense of what Crowley was trying to do.. a sort of creative approach to ritual in order to liberate, but I'm not down with the details.
"What holds attention determines action." - William James

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manas
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Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby manas » Sun Mar 24, 2013 7:33 am

Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Here's an interesting one for you...

Postby danieLion » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:04 am


danieLion
Posts: 1947
Joined: Wed May 25, 2011 4:49 am

Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby danieLion » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:06 am


Kenshou
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Location: Minneapolis, MN

Re: Magick and Buddhism

Postby Kenshou » Sun Mar 24, 2013 8:33 am



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