kirk5a wrote:polarbuddha101 wrote:Anyway, the dhamma isn't about abstracting in our minds the 'out there' but about seeing what's right here, sights, sounds, smells, tastes, tactile sensations, mental phenomena.
Yep. But then, seeing said phenomena as "as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a disintegration, an emptiness, not-self" one turns the mind away from said phenomena and towards the deathless element.
Right, so I guess the question is: what is the meaning of this statement? Is the deathless element something out there or is it simply the stilling of all fabrications and the abandoning of the five aggregates of grasping fuel? If one realizes anatta, that none of the aggregates are oneself, that none of the six sense spheres are oneself, that self can't be found anywhere, then how could one die? I'm open to changing my mind, it just seems that nibbana is more likely this:
Given the definition given in SN 38.1, SN 43.1-44, and Abhidhamma Vibhaṅga 184, I would say that it's a designation (paññatti, prajñapti) referring to the elimination of passion, aggression, and delusion. Or with regard to the four paths (stream-entry, etc.), a designation referring to the elimination of fetters terminated by each path. This is similar to the Sautrāntika interpretation.
than this:
For the Theravāda, nibbāna is an ultimately real dhamma (paramatthadhamma) and the only dhamma that is not conditioned (asaṅkhata). It is an object of supramundane cognition (lokuttaracitta) and is included in the mental phenomena sensory sphere (dhammāyatana) and the mental phenomena component (dhammadhātu). The four paths, four fruits, and nibbāna are classified as the unincluded level (apariyāpanna bhūmi), that is, not included in the sensual realm, the form realm, or the formless realm. According to the Visuddhimagga, nibbāna "has peace as its characteristic. Its function is not to die; or its function is to comfort. It is manifested as the signless; or it is manifested as non-diversification (nippapañca)."
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... 74&start=0"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."
"I don't envision a single thing that, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about such suffering & stress as the mind. The mind, when undeveloped & uncultivated, brings about suffering & stress."
