Sinking boat moral dilemma

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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mikenz66
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by mikenz66 »

binocular wrote:
alan wrote:Everyone watches out for their own interests first.
But how come there is a taboo on actually saying this?
What is accomplished by this taboo? A semblance of community, solidarity, ...?
The Buddha had this to say:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html
[The Blessed One was at Saavatthii]

At this time King Pasenadi of Kosala was on the upper terrace of the palace with Queen Mallikaa. And the king asked her: "Mallikaa, is there anyone dearer to you than yourself?"[1]

"Your Majesty, there is no one dearer to me than myself. And you, sire, is anyone dearer to you than yourself?"

"Nor is there anyone dearer to me, Mallikaa, than myself."

Then the king went down from the palace and visited the Blessed One [and told him the whole story.] And the Blessed One, understanding, thereupon uttered this verse:

Though in thought we range throughout the world,
We'll nowhere find a thing more dear than self.
So, since others hold the self so dear,
He who loves himself should injure none.


:anjali:
Mike
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BlackBird
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by BlackBird »

alan wrote:Everyone watches out for their own interests first. Everyone holds their life dear; even Queen Maalikaa admitted it to the King.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html
Perhaps, but then I think there are a number of people who's own interests are the interests of others. There are plenty of examples throughout history, even recently of people sacrificing their lives to try and save the lives of others.

So I completely disagree with anyone who puts forth the view that everyone will look after themselves and only themselves in these kind of situations.

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Polar Bear
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by Polar Bear »

If I only had a couple seconds to decide, survival instincts would probably override any other concerns and I'd probably immediately jump off my boat and swim to the other one where I'd be safe and then I'd start to feel concerned for the people on the sinking boat once I was myself safe. If I had a few minutes to decide I'd be much more likely to stay but I still can't say for certain what I would do. Either way that situation would suck.
"I don't envision a single thing that, when developed & cultivated, leads to such great benefit as the mind. The mind, when developed & cultivated, leads to great benefit."

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binocular
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by binocular »

mikenz66 wrote:
binocular wrote:
alan wrote:Everyone watches out for their own interests first.
But how come there is a taboo on actually saying this?
What is accomplished by this taboo? A semblance of community, solidarity, ...?
The Buddha had this to say:
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .wlsh.html
[The Blessed One was at Saavatthii]

At this time King Pasenadi of Kosala was on the upper terrace of the palace with Queen Mallikaa. And the king asked her: "Mallikaa, is there anyone dearer to you than yourself?"[1]

"Your Majesty, there is no one dearer to me than myself. And you, sire, is anyone dearer to you than yourself?"

"Nor is there anyone dearer to me, Mallikaa, than myself."

Then the king went down from the palace and visited the Blessed One [and told him the whole story.] And the Blessed One, understanding, thereupon uttered this verse:

Though in thought we range throughout the world,
We'll nowhere find a thing more dear than self.
So, since others hold the self so dear,
He who loves himself should injure none.
Do you find that this sutta is suggesting that the reason there is a taboo on stating that "everyone watches out for their own interest first," is that others would feel injured if one were to state so?

I agree with this conclusion, although I don't see it in the sutta.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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mikenz66
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by mikenz66 »

No I think that the Buddha is using the honest observation that we don't find anything more dear than our selves into a teaching of how we should therefore care for others.

:anjali:
Mike
binocular
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by binocular »

mikenz66 wrote:No I think that the Buddha is using the honest observation that we don't find anything more dear than our selves into a teaching of how we should therefore care for others.
Sure. But how does this address the scenario in the OP? Because sometimes, caring for oneself seems to come at the expense of caring for others.
Hic Rhodus, hic salta!
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mikenz66
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by mikenz66 »

Hi binocular,

It was a reply to your comment about there being a taboo on explicitly admitting this fact.
http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.ph ... ad#p241290

And it relates to other comments that one of the useful things about these scenarios is to investigate it (finding no-one else more dear).

:anjali:
Mike
alan
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Re: Sinking boat moral dilemma

Post by alan »

Everyone holds themselves most dear; pretending otherwise is just pretentious or foolish.
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