Problems with no-self

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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reflection
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby reflection » Thu May 16, 2013 3:13 am

Alex, you've now seen that one can argue a self and one can argue no self. And the arguments may seem convincing either way. But some doubt remains. That doubt will remain until one steps beyond arguing and instead experiences things directly. That is not by a thought, argument or idea, but by looking deeply inside ourselves. Then you don't need arguments anymore.

If for the time you have issues with the idea of no-self that's because you see it at the level of intellect. I don't think it's really a problem as long as you can put aside the intellectual understanding when you meditate.

binocular
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby binocular » Thu May 16, 2013 6:50 am


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reflection
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby reflection » Thu May 16, 2013 12:45 pm

That interpretation again comes from argumentation. If one looks deeply inside oneself without bias one can see what is there and what is not there. Then there can only be one way things are, not multiple truths. To be without bias is not holding to views, not holding to the intellect. That way it's not circular because you take your own experience as a guide, not what anybody else says, or even what your intellect says. Exactly as the Buddha recommended.

Well, I admit that's the ideal case and I don't think many people see no-self fully. Otherwise there wouldn't be so much different opinions on core teachings of the dhamma. But it's not like you see no-self 100% or you don't see it at all. You can build it up, slowly beginning to understand it by looking deeper instead of using argumentation. That way it will not be based on a religious aspect. To see it partly is already very useful and brings forth some trust that the Buddha may have been right. Ones ideas won't go from one side to the other anymore.
Last edited by reflection on Thu May 16, 2013 4:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.

binocular
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby binocular » Thu May 16, 2013 3:13 pm

I don't think you understand what I'm saying. And it would take several paragraphs to explain, and I don't feel like it right now. It's like a non-Christian trying to explain to a Christian why "Just place your faith in Jesus" is useless advice ...

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reflection
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby reflection » Thu May 16, 2013 4:01 pm

Don't bother. I get what you were saying, I just don't think it's true.

I do hope Alex sees my point.

chownah
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby chownah » Thu May 16, 2013 4:04 pm


binocular
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby binocular » Thu May 16, 2013 4:30 pm


chownah
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby chownah » Fri May 17, 2013 2:40 pm

Binocular,
The things you say are not possible are routinely done by many people every day....maybe you are interpreting them in a very narrow way and so they seem impossible. I suggest you open your mind just a bit wider and try interpreting these things in a broader way and try to find some sort of truth in them.....but only if you want to......I don't want you to think that I want you to do something contrary to your nature.
chownah

binocular
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby binocular » Fri May 17, 2013 3:13 pm


chownah
Posts: 6161
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby chownah » Fri May 17, 2013 4:15 pm


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reflection
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Re: Problems with no-self

Postby reflection » Fri May 17, 2013 7:48 pm

I think this whole faith / bias-confirmation idea doesn't have a lot to do with the thread at hand, neither is it really helping anyone, so I'll leave it to my previous replies. :namaste:


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