Hate speech

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Hate speech

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:14 am

Hate speech 
–noun- speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of race, religion, gender, or sexual orientation.
Dictionary.com Unabridged
Based on the Random House Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2009.

n. Bigoted speech attacking or disparaging a social or ethnic group or a member of such a group.
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2009 by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Should the term "hate speech" ever be used in discourse among professed Buddhists? Or should the term be completely expunged from usage, on the basis that its very usage implies judgment about another person's mindstate?
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But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Hate speech

Postby David N. Snyder » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:28 am

It is best to attack the message of those positions, not the messenger. We may not know fully how a person actually feels, except of course in some extreme cases of those stating their memberships in hate groups.

From the Terms of Service:

Members are expected to self-moderate, being mindful of the adage that 'behaviour breeds behaviour'. Mutual respect and friendliness should be the basis of all interactions.
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Re: Hate speech

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:30 am

Thank you. I'll be mindful to expunge the term "hate speech" from usage here.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
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Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Hate speech

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:36 am

Greetings Jechbi,

Jechbi wrote:Should the term "hate speech" ever be used in discourse among professed Buddhists?

I find the concept of "hate speech" is a bit faulty because it's limited to specific targets. Have you ever seen the South Park episode where they talk about "hate crimes"?

Jechbi wrote:Or should the term be completely expunged from usage, on the basis that its very usage implies judgment about another person's mindstate?

I think it's fine to talk about the mindstate of hatred, generally. What I'm not a fan of is inferring that other people's speech is being coloured by particular unwholesome mindstates, and then in turn using that as a Buddhist (i.e. anatta-aware version) equivalent of an ad-hominem attack. In other words, the argument that "your argument is baseless because it was presented with an unwholesome state of mind".

(P.S. I'd just like to point out that this wasn't written in relation to the thread that you asked to be locked... I hadn't looked at the latest posts there before typing this)

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Re: Hate speech

Postby Jechbi » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:40 am

retrofuturist wrote:What I'm not a fan of is inferring that other people's speech is being coloured by particular unwholesome mindstates, and then in turn using that as a Buddhist (i.e. anatta-aware version) equivalent of an ad-hominem attack. In other words, the argument that "your argument is baseless because it was presented with an unwholesome state of mind".

Thanks, Retro. I can see how this is problematic and not conducive to helpful discourse. I do feel, however, that there are times when it is appropriate to call something by its name, and I do think there are times when hate speech should be pointed out for what it is. But sparingly, if ever.
Rain soddens what is kept wrapped up,
But never soddens what is open;
Uncover, then, what is concealed,
Lest it be soddened by the rain.
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Re: Hate speech

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:43 am

I think hate speech should be identified as such and pointed out to the person who is doing it. If possible, in a kind way.
And if it hurts the person who is using that sort of speech to hear it, perhaps it's the kind of hurt that can lead to insight.

:anjali:
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Re: Hate speech

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:46 am

Greetings,

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I think hate speech should be identified as such and pointed out to the person who is doing it.

How can we confidently know it really was hate speech, though?

Is there any foolproof criteria by which such things can be known?

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Hate speech

Postby Ben » Thu Jul 09, 2009 4:54 am

Hi Jechbi

Sometimes the best thing that can be done (or said) is to do (or say) nothing.
What I mean to say is that some people have in inate ability to dig themselves deeper in the cesspit.
Also, remember that aversion cannot be conquered with more aversion.
Metta

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Re: Hate speech

Postby Ngawang Drolma. » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:23 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I think hate speech should be identified as such and pointed out to the person who is doing it.

How can we confidently know it really was hate speech, though?

Is there any foolproof criteria by which such things can be known?

Metta,
Retro. :)


Hi Retro,

I'm not sure yet. I'll think about it :)

Kindly,
Drolma
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Re: Hate speech

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jul 09, 2009 5:31 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Ngawang Drolma wrote:I think hate speech should be identified as such and pointed out to the person who is doing it.

How can we confidently know it really was hate speech, though?

Is there any foolproof criteria by which such things can be known?

Metta,
Retro. :)


hi Retro,
good point, speech is speach, how it is used depends on the context!

I remember a Chris Rock film where he dies and is put in the body of a white old fat man, and sings a song being played on the sound system of the shop which has a certain word in it, repeated over and over, so got his but wooped.
there has also been examples of misperception of words here, somepeople like to see the bad in things rather than see things as they are.
This offering maybe right, or wrong, but it is one, the other, both, or neither!
With Metta
Upāsaka Cittasanto
Blog, - Some Suttas Translated, Ajahn Chah.
"Others will misconstrue reality due to their personal perspectives, doggedly holding onto and not easily discarding them; We shall not misconstrue reality due to our own personal perspectives, nor doggedly holding onto them, but will discard them easily. This effacement shall be done."
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