Anatta takes out metta

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

pegembara wrote:
"every beings is made up of 5 aggregates and they are all not-self so why must i waste my time cultivating metta towards those impermanent aggregates." is just another view!

This is what should be done
By one who is skilled in goodness
And who knows the path of peace:
Let them be able and upright,
Straightforward and gentle in speech,
Humble and not conceited,
Contented and easily satisfied,
Unburdened with duties and frugal in their ways.
Peaceful and calm, and wise and skillful,
Not proud and demanding in nature.
Let them not do the slightest thing
That the wise would later reprove,
Wishing: In gladness and in safety,
May all beings be at ease....


By not holding to fixed vews,
The pure-hearted one, having clarity of vision,
Being freed from all sense-desires,
Is not born again into this world.

Karaniya Metta Sutta
Is it not that view that is helping us to clear our misunderstanding towards the real phenomena?
SarathW
Posts: 21227
Joined: Mon Sep 10, 2012 2:49 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by SarathW »

All in this world (including news readers) except Arhants will suffer.
Even I suffer, because I am not an Arahant.
I know that you suffer too. (assuming that you are not an Arahant)
With that knowledge I will extend my loving kindness and compassion towards you.
So beings who do not understand Dhamma will always suffer irrespective of Muslim or Buddhist.
“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”
User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by lyndon taylor »

Just as a part of us in not made up of the 5 aggregates, so is a part of everyone else, and every sentient being, not made up of the 5 aggregates, so we should have compassion for all sentient beings, perhaps not so much compassion for non sentient things.
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

Mental suffering is a conditional feeling aggregate. If one does not regard the feeling aggregate as self, how can one think one suffers?
User avatar
lyndon taylor
Posts: 1835
Joined: Mon May 02, 2011 11:41 pm
Location: Redlands, US occupied Northern Mexico
Contact:

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by lyndon taylor »

Understanding that your feelings of suffering are not self, does not stop you from feeling suffering. Understanding that your possessions are not self, does not stop you from having possessions, Understanding that your body is not self does not stop you from having a body. Understanding that your thoughts are not self does not stop you from having thoughts, etc etc.

Which is not to say that realizing all these things would not reduce your level of suffering......
18 years ago I made one of the most important decisions of my life and entered a local Cambodian Buddhist Temple as a temple boy and, for only 3 weeks, an actual Therevada Buddhist monk. I am not a scholar, great meditator, or authority on Buddhism, but Buddhism is something I love from the Bottom of my heart. It has taught me sobriety, morality, peace, and very importantly that my suffering is optional, and doesn't have to run my life. I hope to give back what little I can to the Buddhist community, sincerely former monk John

http://trickleupeconomictheory.blogspot.com/
User avatar
PadmaPhala
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:22 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by PadmaPhala »

anatman and maitri are not mutually exclusive.
barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

One more thing i don't understand about cultivating metta-karuna is when we wish others to be good, isn't that consider an expectation which defeat the main dhamma practice of accepting the way things are?

Surely it feels happy to wish and have everyone in good form but the state of mind that was expecting something positive rather than just let things go and make peace with the present is somehow counterproductive to the practice, at least this is how i see.

Please address any mistake.

Thanks again everyone.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by Aloka »

barcsimalsi wrote:One more thing i don't understand about cultivating metta-karuna is when we wish others to be good, isn't that consider an expectation which defeat the main dhamma practice of accepting the way things are?

Surely it feels happy to wish and have everyone in good form but the state of mind that was expecting something positive rather than just let things go and make peace with the present is somehow counterproductive to the practice, at least this is how i see.

Please address any mistake.

Thanks again everyone.
I think the cultivation of metta and karuna towards others isn't about wanting anything from them. It helps us to develop a more accepting and peaceful mind ourselves - and this is very beneficial for mental stability and practice in the here and now.

This benevolent attitude in oneself can be summed up in these verses from the Amaravati Chanting Book:

Reflections on Universal Well Being

"May I abide in well-being,
in freedom from affliction,
in freedom from hostility,
in freedom from ill-will,
in freedom from anxiety,
and may I maintain well-being in myself.

May everyone abide in well-being,
in freedom from affliction,
in freedom from hostility,
in freedom from ill-will,
in freedom from anxiety,
and may they maintain well-being in themselves.

May all beings be released from all suffering
and may they not be parted from
the good fortune they have attained.

When they act upon intention
all beings are the owners of their action,
and inherit its results.

Their future is born from such action,
companion to such action,
and its results will be their home.

All actions with intention,
be they skillful or harmful;
of such acts, they will be the heirs."

Additionally, the sections: "Lesson 4 The Giving and Receiving Heart" and "Lesson 5 Wisdom and Compassion" from "Finding the Missing Peace" by Ajahn Amaro might be helpful.

https://www.abhayagiri.org/books/findin ... sing-peace

.
barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

Aloka wrote: I think the cultivation of metta and karuna towards others isn't about wanting anything from them.
That was absolutely right. But my post refers to wanting something for them. Regardless of expecting something for others or oneself, It still looks like a wishful thinking that brings the mind to the future.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by Aloka »

barcsimalsi wrote: It still looks like a wishful thinking that brings the mind to the future.
That shouldn't be happening because its not about speculating about how well being is going to happen in the future, its about being with the breath and the practice of generating metta in the present. When the practice is ended the mind just relaxes in metta and goodwill beyond concepts.
barcsimalsi
Posts: 385
Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 7:33 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by barcsimalsi »

Aloka wrote:
barcsimalsi wrote: It still looks like a wishful thinking that brings the mind to the future.
That shouldn't be happening because its not about speculating about how well being is going to happen in the future, its about being with the breath and the practice of generating metta in the present. When the practice is ended the mind just relaxes in metta and goodwill beyond concepts.
Thanks for explaining. Is it possible to experience metta without chanting any verse?
User avatar
PadmaPhala
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:22 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by PadmaPhala »

barcsimalsi wrote:Mental suffering is a conditional feeling aggregate. If one does not regard the feeling aggregate as self, how can one think one suffers?
i concur 108%
User avatar
PadmaPhala
Posts: 169
Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:22 am

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by PadmaPhala »

barcsimalsi wrote:One more thing i don't understand about cultivating metta-karuna is when we wish others to be good, isn't that consider an expectation which defeat the main dhamma practice of accepting the way things are?

Surely it feels happy to wish and have everyone in good form but the state of mind that was expecting something positive rather than just let things go and make peace with the present is somehow counterproductive to the practice, at least this is how i see.

Please address any mistake.

Thanks again everyone.
Shakyamuni left because of maitri towards himself [enlightened self-interest].
a MahaBrahma insisted that he better teach than keep it to himself because of karuna and maitri.
Shakyamuni accepted because of Upekkha.
User avatar
Aloka
Posts: 7797
Joined: Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:51 pm

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by Aloka »

barcsimalsi wrote: Thanks for explaining. Is it possible to experience metta without chanting any verse?
Yes, there's a 5 minute Metta instruction from Ajahn Jayasaro here:

User avatar
manas
Posts: 2678
Joined: Thu Jul 22, 2010 3:04 am
Location: Melbourne, Australia

Re: Anatta takes out metta

Post by manas »

barcsimalsi wrote: "every beings is made up of 5 aggregates and they are all not-self so why must i waste my time cultivating metta towards those impermanent aggregates."
Because dukkha is real, and it is being experienced right now by countless beings, in a range encompassing anything from constant itchiness to unbearable, unending torture. Suffering is happening. And it hurts.

The not-self contemplation is meant for letting go of clinging to what is not self, it's not meant to turn us into nihilists.

:anjali:
To the Buddha-refuge i go; to the Dhamma-refuge i go; to the Sangha-refuge i go.
Post Reply