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The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:25 am
by Ceisiwr
Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:28 am
by lyndon taylor
I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:36 am
by Ceisiwr
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:56 am
by Ben
clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 5:59 am
by Ceisiwr
Ben wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
lyndon taylor wrote:I've heard its 21" or less for beds and chairs, which is quite easy to accommodate.
Hmm but my question is more about mind states

I suppose what I'm asking is if its good for someone, like me, who sleeps in a big comfortable bed to sleep on the floor to experience the dukkha of not having a comfortable bed (and so grow mindfulness)

Or would that be asceticism ...?
Hi Craig,

When I am on retreat, I sleep on a thin mattress.
The idea of the precept is that one doesn't indulge in the sensual pleasure of comfortable bed. Sleeping on a thin mattress will certainly ensure that you experience the dukkha of not being in your own comfortable bed, but it is more conducive to minfulness by only sleeping when you need it rather than dozing and potentially cultivating states of sloth and torpor.
kind regards,

Ben
Thanks Ben :)

I guess what I'm wary of is taking it too far and sleeping in such a way where I dont sleep, which will affect my health and performance in work etc, yet I don't want to sleep on a bed that gives rise to sloth

:juggling:

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Wed Aug 14, 2013 6:09 am
by Ben
Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Thu Aug 15, 2013 7:14 pm
by Cittasanto
clw_uk wrote:
Uccasayana-mahasayana veramani sikkhapadam samadiyami


I undertake the precept to refrain from lying on a high or luxurious sleeping place.
Does this mean sleeping on the floor, or sleeping on a blanket?

What is the defining line between luxury and asceticism?
Q1
The length mentioned in the vinaya equivalent of this rule is only for the legs (I would include any part not the seat or part one lies on such as a bed stead) of the "resting place", not of the mattress, cushion....
the actual length is hard to assess accurately. but I favour Ajahn Thanissaros interpretation which can be found in pācittiyā 87 and discussed in Appendix 2. But I have seen the maximum height given as up to 65cm before.

Q2 (I read the rest of the thread before answering this one)
the motive behind undertaking this precept is to be able to be satisfied with what is at hand, we cannot always have a comfy bed (or any luxury for that matter), or expect it as a given so being able to relinquish luxuries (even if it is by choice or once a week) helps us face hardship more equanimously.

Re: The 8th Precept

Posted: Fri Aug 16, 2013 4:53 am
by pegembara
Ben wrote:Just take it easy and gradually, Craig.
Perhaps its something you might like to observe on the Uposotha (or on your weekend). Sleeping on a thin mattress Its something that I have found that I have gotten used to.
Since the beginning of the year I've been doing some camping and I reckon I get a better sleep on my thermarest insulated inflatable roll in a tent than I do in my bed at home.
kind regards,

Ben
In that the the 8th precept might entail sleeping on "luxurious" beds.
:tongue: