Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Sanjay PS
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Sanjay PS »

arijitmitter wrote:
Sanjay PS wrote: i think it is entirely uncalled for us laity to evaluate or contemplate a" perceived " or factual short coming of those who have donned the robe . There is the proper Sangha in place to deal and manage any conducts that spills over the Vinaya . Whenever we pay our deep respects to the members of Sangha it is the qualities of the Sangha to which we stand inspired , devoid of the individuals inclination . And i am sure , a natural feeling of gratitude emanates with reverence making us want to provide the best .
Can you explain this by your concept of self correcting Sangha ?

http://news.yahoo.com/scandal-jet-setti ... 38071.html

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOaLYryhivQ

These monks did not buy their ipod and sunglasses and expensive luggage the day the video was shot. It must have been on going.

How is this different than the German Bishop who spent $ 43 million to renovate his home and $ 15000 on a bathtub ?

http://news.yahoo.com/pope-banishes-ger ... 54932.html
My dear friend Arijit ,

We keep looking outside and outside ...........and the inside gets that much more poorer and poorer............

Look within yourself; give it time and patience , without defining any limits to these two coordinates . Remember , without faith ( entirely different from the crutches of blind faith ) its like being in a race , having eyes and brains , but having no legs to actually strive ahead. As the saying goes in the Pali language " Kalam Agmaya " time has no meaning, leave time alone ...

i am sure you will make become a stellar example of the Sangha, having abandoned and discarded subtle and refined conceit both from its weeds and its roots .

Tumhare arijit punnaiye me , bhag sabhee ka ho, aur hum sabh apne punnaiye ka vitran karte hai .( May we also partake in your accumulated merits , and may we also share our merits with you ) .

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
arijitmitter
Posts: 118
Joined: Sun Jun 30, 2013 11:24 am

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by arijitmitter »

Thank you Sanjay. Since I do not react well to authority, I am not a suitable disciple for any form of formal Buddhism except for being a free thinker who follows Buddha.

Being unorthodox, I cannot summon suitable calmness when reacting to a centuries old hierarchical structure if I think or suspect a flaw in it (regardless if the flaw is imaginary).

It is best I do not interact in this Forum for some time.

:anjali: Arijit
daverupa
Posts: 5980
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Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by daverupa »

PeterB wrote:That's another latinisation.
The lad's name is Y'shua. :focus:
:clap:
  • "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.

- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
chownah
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Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by chownah »

Sanjay PS wrote: As the saying goes in the Pali language " Kalam Agmaya " time has no meaning, leave time alone......
sanjay
Sanjay PS,
The saying you present above seems to be a Pali colloquialism. I'm very interested in where it comes from as the existence of colloquialisms in Pali interest me very much.......do you have the reference?
chownah
Sanjay PS
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Sanjay PS »

chownah wrote:
Sanjay PS wrote: As the saying goes in the Pali language " Kalam Agmaya " time has no meaning, leave time alone......
sanjay
Sanjay PS,
The saying you present above seems to be a Pali colloquialism. I'm very interested in where it comes from as the existence of colloquialisms in Pali interest me very much.......do you have the reference?
chownah
Chownah ,

While doing a long course in Dhamma Tapovan ( at a place called Igatpuri in India , where 20 to 90 day courses are regularly held, and other parts of the world, http://www.dhamma.org ) these inspirational words give further zeal to an ardent meditator . Some of them apart from that what was in context are :

- aukit chako ( at all times keep your eyes down and the mind inwards )

- bhat mathaniyo ( eat in moderation )

Dhamma is so wonderful ,timeless , bearing fruits here and now, an unrestrained joy, especially when shared .

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by chownah »

Sanjay PS wrote:
chownah wrote:
Sanjay PS wrote: As the saying goes in the Pali language " Kalam Agmaya " time has no meaning, leave time alone......
sanjay
Sanjay PS,
The saying you present above seems to be a Pali colloquialism. I'm very interested in where it comes from as the existence of colloquialisms in Pali interest me very much.......do you have the reference?
chownah
Chownah ,

While doing a long course in Dhamma Tapovan ( at a place called Igatpuri in India , where 20 to 90 day courses are regularly held, and other parts of the world, http://www.dhamma.org ) these inspirational words give further zeal to an ardent meditator . Some of them apart from that what was in context are :

- aukit chako ( at all times keep your eyes down and the mind inwards )

- bhat mathaniyo ( eat in moderation )

Dhamma is so wonderful ,timeless , bearing fruits here and now, an unrestrained joy, especially when shared .

sanjay
Sunjay PS,
I have not been able to find any evidence that any of these words (kalam agmaya, aukit chako, bhat mathaniyo) are from the Pali language at all. I'm hoping that you or some other Pali scholar can help me find out about them.
chownah
Sanjay PS
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Sanjay PS »

Sunjay PS,
I have not been able to find any evidence that any of these words (kalam agmaya, aukit chako, bhat mathaniyo) are from the Pali language at all. I'm hoping that you or some other Pali scholar can help me find out about them.
chownah
My friend ,

i am zero in Pali, hence , can not help you on this . Nor did any of my post say that this is Pali ( though i think it is ) . You can alternatively also do a few 10 day courses , graduating on to the longer courses , and hear these inspirational words for yourself . These words are mentioned by Goenkaji in the longer courses , whom i think had a good grasp on the Pali language ( may be an understatement ) , and in very good probability was very close to the Buddha , in some life or the other .

Do well and be well .

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by chownah »

Sanjay PS wrote:
Sunjay PS,
I have not been able to find any evidence that any of these words (kalam agmaya, aukit chako, bhat mathaniyo) are from the Pali language at all. I'm hoping that you or some other Pali scholar can help me find out about them.
chownah
My friend ,

i am zero in Pali, hence , can not help you on this . Nor did any of my post say that this is Pali ( though i think it is ) . You can alternatively also do a few 10 day courses , graduating on to the longer courses , and hear these inspirational words for yourself . These words are mentioned by Goenkaji in the longer courses , whom i think had a good grasp on the Pali language ( may be an understatement ) , and in very good probability was very close to the Buddha , in some life or the other.

Do well and be well .

sanjay
Sanjay PS,
Thanks for the reply. Actually you did say that Kalam agmaya was a Pali expression......but I understand now that you think that it is Pali. I have looked around and have found no evidence that it, or the other expressions you mentioned, are Pali. I would not want people's ideas about the scriptures to be tainted by false attributation of sayings etc. To say that something is a Pali saying (if it is not) might at a minimum confuse someone if not outright mislead them......I think this idea of preserving the purity of the Teachings is part of showing respect for the Triple Gem.

chownah
Sanjay PS
Posts: 311
Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Sanjay PS »

chownah wrote:
Sanjay PS wrote:
Sunjay PS,
I have not been able to find any evidence that any of these words (kalam agmaya, aukit chako, bhat mathaniyo) are from the Pali language at all. I'm hoping that you or some other Pali scholar can help me find out about them.
chownah
My friend ,

i am zero in Pali, hence , can not help you on this . Nor did any of my post say that this is Pali ( though i think it is ) . You can alternatively also do a few 10 day courses , graduating on to the longer courses , and hear these inspirational words for yourself . These words are mentioned by Goenkaji in the longer courses , whom i think had a good grasp on the Pali language ( may be an understatement ) , and in very good probability was very close to the Buddha , in some life or the other.

Do well and be well .

sanjay
Sanjay PS,
Thanks for the reply. Actually you did say that Kalam agmaya was a Pali expression......but I understand now that you think that it is Pali. I have looked around and have found no evidence that it, or the other expressions you mentioned, are Pali. I would not want people's ideas about the scriptures to be tainted by false attributation of sayings etc. To say that something is a Pali saying (if it is not) might at a minimum confuse someone if not outright mislead them......I think this idea of preserving the purity of the Teachings is part of showing respect for the Triple Gem.

chownah

Will check on the veracity of this Chownah , and to the language to which these words belong , if it is not Pali .

The correction or affirmation will be done accordingly .

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Bhikkhu Pesala »

okkhittacakkhu antaraghare gamissāmīti sikkhā karaṇīyā”ti.
I shall walk among the houses with eyes downcast — this is a training to be done.
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Sanjay PS
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Joined: Thu Sep 26, 2013 2:26 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by Sanjay PS »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
okkhittacakkhu antaraghare gamissāmīti sikkhā karaṇīyā”ti.
I shall walk among the houses with eyes downcast — this is a training to be done.
Thank you Bhante .

Please forgive me for the spelling mistakes , since i have never studied Pali , and have only come across the spoken uttering of these inspiring exhortations during longer retreats . It is a great motivation not be bothered by with the hurry of ones progress . Its just knowing things in different ways that gets a deep contentment of dipping within and the fledgeling steps taken on the path of knowledge .

i remain in inspiration and dedication.

sanjay
The Path of Dhamma

The path of Dhamma is no picnic . It is a strenuous march steeply up the hill . If all the comrades desert you , Walk alone ! Walk alone ! with all the Thrill !!

U S.N. Goenka
chownah
Posts: 9336
Joined: Wed Aug 12, 2009 2:19 pm

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by chownah »

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:
okkhittacakkhu antaraghare gamissāmīti sikkhā karaṇīyā”ti.
I shall walk among the houses with eyes downcast — this is a training to be done.
Bhikkhu Pesala,
Thank you so much for the reply and the Pali which corresponds with one of Sanjay PS's Pali colloquialisms. Having looked on line it seems that okkhittacakkhu means either "downcast eyes" or "with downcast eyes". Is this correct? And the colloquial meaning for this would seem to be to restrain the senses. Is this more or less correct?

Thanks again for your reply and if you happen to come across the Pali corresponding with the other two sayings please let us know.

chownah
alan
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Location: Miramar beach, Fl.

Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by alan »

arijitmitter is speaking sense.
alan
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Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by alan »

Modus.Ponens wrote:
alan wrote:What an odd concept. It's OK to accept needless gifts and live in luxury, so long as you also follow ridiculous rules?

There is a big problem here. Monks can easily get out of touch with reality. I suggest we throw away the old rulebook, and come up with a new way of understanding how to live and teach. No wonder Buddhism isn't thriving-we're stuck in old ways of thinking, particularly about monks.
Realy? Do you realise that a monastic movement in that direction would inevitably cause a schism?

Ok, then, let's have a schism. I'm all for it.
kindergarden
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Re: Are Theravadins Simpler ?

Post by kindergarden »

Real monks would have swam and walked :)
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