We need new rules

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Re: We need new rules

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Nov 02, 2013 8:20 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
103 [7]. Should any bhikkhunī teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a man, unless a knowledgeable woman is present, it is to be confessed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ti.html#pr


:anjali:
Mike


Excellent :) What is the population of nuns/monks anyway?
"Even if you've read the whole Canon and can remember lots of teachings; even if you can explain them in poignant ways, with lots of people to respect you; even if you build a lot of monastery buildings, or can explain inconstancy, stress, and not-self in the most detailed fashion ... The only thing that serves your own true purpose is release from suffering.

"And you'll be able to gain release from suffering only when you know the one mind."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
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Re: We need new rules

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Nov 02, 2013 9:23 pm

mikenz66 wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:The only way i can see this not being sexist is if the exact corollary rule exists for the thriving and numerous population of theravadan nuns.
So is there a rule for nuns that says:

Should any bhikkhini teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a man, unless a knowledgeable woman is present, it is to be confessed. ??

103 [7]. Should any bhikkhunī teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a man, unless a knowledgeable woman is present, it is to be confessed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ti.html#pr



:clap: Great find!

The Dhamma is timeless
The Vinaya is timeless (as long as it is practiced with the letter and spirit and parajikas are enforced)
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Re: We need new rules

Postby Dan74 » Sat Nov 02, 2013 10:59 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:
m0rl0ck wrote:The only way i can see this not being sexist is if the exact corollary rule exists for the thriving and numerous population of theravadan nuns.
So is there a rule for nuns that says:

Should any bhikkhini teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a man, unless a knowledgeable woman is present, it is to be confessed. ??

103 [7]. Should any bhikkhunī teach more than five or six sentences of Dhamma to a man, unless a knowledgeable woman is present, it is to be confessed.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... ti.html#pr



:clap: Great find!

The Dhamma is timeless
The Vinaya is timeless (as long as it is practiced with the letter and spirit and parajikas are enforced)


This is good, David, but we have to admit that there are blatantly sexist rules in Vinaya. A nun of many rains is of a lesser standing than a monk of one day ordination. I mean, we can't turn a blind eye to this and cheer at a little instance of equality like above, can we? Or am I missing something?
_/|\_
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Re: We need new rules

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Nov 02, 2013 11:31 pm

Dan74 wrote:I mean, we can't turn a blind eye to this and cheer at a little instance of equality like above, can we? Or am I missing something?


Yes, we can. It's always good to cheer the positive.

:woohoo:

The 8 garudhammas were probably added later. There are other topics about them and some scholar monks including Bhikkhu Analayo have questioned the authenticity of the 8 garudhammas.
http://www.dhammawiki.com/index.php?title=8_Garudhammas
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Re: We need new rules

Postby alan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 2:52 am

If I told you all the rules that needed to be changed, you'd just argue about them. That's why I pointed out that we are no longer wandering through India. Obviously, the situation has changed. How best to respond?
Getting rid of the _ _ _ _ that has accumulated since that time seems like a good place to start.

Moderator edit: no junk. Further "junk" msgs will be deleted without comment.
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Re: We need new rules

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:23 am

Moderator note: The word "junk" was inappropriate in the OP. The conversation will need to continue without it. Also, no meta-discussion about it. As stated "junk" msgs will be junked.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: We need new rules

Postby alan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 3:48 am

Maybe then rules that make no sense can be discussed?
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Re: We need new rules

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:11 am

alan wrote:Maybe then rules that make no sense can be discussed?
No sense to you, and I assume that is the point of this thread. Just be aware of the sensitivities of others in the choice of adjectives.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: We need new rules

Postby alan » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:24 am

Oh wow you are so sensitive to the needs of others. Makes me want to cry.
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Re: We need new rules

Postby Sanjay PS » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:27 am

tiltbillings wrote:
alan wrote:Maybe then rules that make no sense can be discussed?
No sense to you, and I assume that is the point of this thread. Just be aware of the sensitivities of others in the choice of adjectives.


Both in letter and in spirit, these words can course out the shape of our living and understanding , just as a mighty river weathers down seemingly gigantic boulders across its path.

"Pride and prejudice can always be overcome by sense and sensibility ."

Thank you Tilt.

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Re: We need new rules

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Nov 04, 2013 4:33 am

alan wrote:Oh wow you are so sensitive to the needs of others. Makes me want to cry.
Spare us the sarcasm, and have a civil discussion. Anything further off topic will be deleted.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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