Kamma is responisable for everything ?

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Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Tue Nov 19, 2013 11:54 pm

I would like to understand how much kamma has an effect on what is happening - cause some places it says it affects everything and some other places it says it only affects some

I do want the answer to be yes, kamma affects everything - but would of course like to reach the truth
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 20, 2013 12:10 am

This is a difficult subject.
Please read the attached. The best book as far as I know.
:)

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/kamma.htm#Contents
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 20, 2013 5:22 am

Greetings,

purple planet wrote:I would like to understand how much kamma has an effect on what is happening - cause some places it says it affects everything and some other places it says it only affects some

I question what you're going to get in this topic, other than more diverse opinions...

purple planet wrote:I do want the answer to be yes, kamma affects everything

Why?

Is it by any chance because you'd like to think we live in a universe that operates under a form of natural justice, where everyone "gets what they deserve" in the end? Because if that's why, then no... that's not what kamma is about at all. That's pop-karma, as opposed to kamma as taught by the Buddha.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:18 am

Is it by any chance because you'd like to think we live in a universe that operates under a form of natural justice, where everyone "gets what they deserve" in the end? Because if that's why, then no... that's not what kamma is about at all. That's pop-karma, as opposed to kamma as taught by the Buddha.


its actually complicated to say exactly what my reason is - there are many reasons why i want this to be so - one for an example is

I liked to think that everything that happened to me was 100% my kamma - that eases my mind a lot -

this guy was rude to me ? - i probably acted the same way to someone else

waited long in traffic ? - probably cut someone in line in the past

so i would have liked to think its all 100% kamma and no other thing


also its about how much of what i put in to practice in terms of meditation or dana has an effect - especially meditation

and other reason also
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby cooran » Wed Nov 20, 2013 9:30 am

SarathW wrote:This is a difficult subject.
Please read the attached. The best book as far as I know.
:)

http://www.buddhanet.net/cmdsg/kamma.htm#Contents


Excellent link! - particularly Chapter 6. Misunderstandings of the Law of Kamma

With metta,
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 20, 2013 10:08 pm

Greetings,

purple planet wrote:I liked to think that everything that happened to me was 100% my kamma - that eases my mind a lot -

this guy was rude to me ? - i probably acted the same way to someone else

waited long in traffic ? - probably cut someone in line in the past

so i would have liked to think its all 100% kamma and no other thing

I thought something like that might be the case.

No, that is not what kamma is about in the Buddha's teaching.

I'd recommend laying down your present perceptions of what kamma is and start afresh, using the Sutta Pitaka (and examinations of the suttas undertaken by well regarded teachers) as a guide. If you're serious about understanding kamma as the Buddha taught it, also steer clear of post-sutta story telling such as the Jataka Tales.

From what Sarath and Cooran have said, the link provided sounds good. I hope you find time to read it.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:17 pm

From what Sarath and Cooran have said, the link provided sounds good. I hope you find time to read it.


i will i will just finish reading this one : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#part1-b and im on to that one it does look good

still would like to hear as much opinions as possible on the subject and read as much relevant links - there is a big chance i wont understand it even after reading that good link - so would like to have backup lol - defiantly lots of times though the forum gave me answers that some big internet books didnt give - so maybe it can be answered in a forum discussion
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby SarathW » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:27 pm

Ok PP
According to Buddhism the things around us are the result of five Niyamas.
Kamma is only one of them.
More info is in the link I provided to you.
:)
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 20, 2013 11:33 pm

Greetings,

purple planet wrote:i will i will just finish reading this one : http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... ml#part1-b and im on to that one it does look good

still would like to hear as much opinions as possible on the subject and read as much relevant links - there is a big chance i wont understand it even after reading that good link - so would like to have backup lol - defiantly lots of times though the forum gave me answers that some big internet books didnt give - so maybe it can be answered in a forum discussion

:thumbsup:

Excellent.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


Dharma Wheel (Mahayana / Vajrayana forum) -- Open flower ~ Open book (blog)
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby Sanjay PS » Thu Nov 21, 2013 12:49 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

purple planet wrote:I liked to think that everything that happened to me was 100% my kamma - that eases my mind a lot -

this guy was rude to me ? - i probably acted the same way to someone else

waited long in traffic ? - probably cut someone in line in the past

so i would have liked to think its all 100% kamma and no other thing

I thought something like that might be the case.

No, that is not what kamma is about in the Buddha's teaching.

I'd recommend laying down your present perceptions of what kamma is and start afresh, using the Sutta Pitaka (and examinations of the suttas undertaken by well regarded teachers) as a guide. If you're serious about understanding kamma as the Buddha taught it, also steer clear of post-sutta story telling such as the Jataka Tales.

From what Sarath and Cooran have said, the link provided sounds good. I hope you find time to read it.

Metta,
Retro. :)


Steer clear of Jataka Tales :(

Its most inspiring , provided one does not get carried away blindly . As one gradually develops more on the path , things which were not acceptable by us initially , falls well in its multi-deimensional perspectives , and helps greatly to keep walking on the path without a trace of fanaticism .

Things described in the Jataka Tales , keep on happening , they are just products of our minds , giving it shape and substance .

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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Tue Nov 26, 2013 8:49 pm

Still confusing - seems now that kamma has a small part now - can you give me more links ?
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby Mkoll » Tue Nov 26, 2013 10:39 pm

retrofuturist wrote:I'd recommend laying down your present perceptions of what kamma is and start afresh, using the Sutta Pitaka (and examinations of the suttas undertaken by well regarded teachers) as a guide. If you're serious about understanding kamma as the Buddha taught it, also steer clear of post-sutta story telling such as the Jataka Tales.


Dear purple planet,

I'd recommend following that advice from retrofuturist.

Metta.
Peace,
James
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby whynotme » Thu Nov 28, 2013 6:20 pm

purple planet wrote:Still confusing - seems now that kamma has a small part now - can you give me more links ?


I put the emphasis on wisdom more than karma. The Buddha said something like, the result of karma is unrecognizable (sorry my English), so unless you are a buddha, don't try to analyze karma. So I don't think like this

this guy was rude to me ? - i probably acted the same way to someone else

waited long in traffic ? - probably cut someone in line in the past


But I think whether I was rude to someone else in the past, it is not as important because:
1/ I can not know whether it is true or not
2/ Even if it true, it is not important, as the result of karma can be changed. In case it can't be changed then what is the benefit of sticking your mind with it?

So I think more about the future than the past or present. I think more about how to 'cheat' or 'exploit' karma than, oh it is my fault in the past. And I realized the future is much more important than getting your mind stuck to the unknown karma of the past.

I even dare to create bad karma in the present and I realized letting go is much more important than worrying about karma, because as a normal person, you will mostly still create bad karma. Stuck with it is two times wrong: first you create bad action, second, you attach your mind with it. The second is even a worse karma.

Just know your bad action and let it go. You are mostly not a saint, don't try to act like a saint, it increases your ego.

A fool thinks he is wise, he is a fool
A fool knows he is a fool, he is wise

Always remember you are a fool (most likely) and you will be fine (J/k)

Lastly, AFAIK, karma is not responsible for everything.
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:20 pm

Just to get a debate going :

Some places i read that people got cured of sickness after long retreats - so there can be non mental sickness that are caused 100% from kamma ?

Weather has nothing to do with kamma ?

is kamma affecting you just eternally and then the fact you change will bring you future results cause of your future actions - OR does kamma affect also external stuff
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby cooran » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:25 pm

Hello Pp.,

Please read the link Sarath gave at the beginning of this thread and discuss anything you agree or disagree with.

With metta
Chris
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---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:29 pm

I read it - and a bit more - and i dont think i really understand more after reading it cause i did know about the niyamas - it had some good points and it was a good read but still


but if i have to choose a spesific thing after reading the link its :

after reading it it seems that kamma mainly effects our own future actions and not much else but i probably didnt understand this thing right - right ?
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby SarathW » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:38 pm

Hi PP
The best way to understand Kamma is to understand the Buddha's teaching.
Please read the book below from Chapter 15.
=====================
In regard to Niyama please read pge 262
Extract is given below:

====================
The Five Niyāmas
According to Buddhism there are five orders or processes
(Niyāmas)12 which operate in the physical and mental realms.
They are:—
1 Utu Niyāma, physical inorganic order; e.g., seasonal phenomena
of winds and rains, the unerring order of seasons,
characteristic seasonal changes and events, causes of winds
and rains, nature of heat, etc. belong to this group.
2 Bīja Niyāma, order of germs and seeds (physical organic
order); e.g., rice produced from rice seed, sugary taste from
sugar-cane or honey, and peculiar characteristics of certain
fruits. The scientific theory of cells and genes and the physical
similarity of twins may be ascribed to this order.
3 Kamma Niyāma, order of act and result; e.g., desirable
and undesirable acts produce corresponding good and bad
results.
As surely as water seeks its own level, so does Kamma, given
opportunity, produce its inevitable result, – not in the form of
a reward or punishment but as an innate sequence. This sequence
of deed and effect is as natural and necessary as the
way of the sun and the moon, and is the retributive principle
of Kamma.
Inherent in Kamma is also the continuative principle.

Manifold experiences, personal characteristics, accumulated
knowledge, and so forth are all indelibly recorded in the
palimpsest-like mind. All these experiences and characters
transmigrate from life to life. Through lapse of time they may
be forgotten as in the case of our experiences of our childhood.
infant prodigies and wonderful children, who speak in different
languages without receiving any instruction, are noteworthy
examples of the continuative principle of Kamma.
1 Dhamma Niyāma, order of the norm; e.g., the natural
phenomena occurring at the birth of a Bodhisatta in his last
birth. Gravitation and other similar laws of nature, the reason
for being good, etc. may be included in this group.
2 Citta Niyāma, order of mind or psychic law; e.g., processes
of consciousness, constituents of consciousness, power
of mind, including telepathy, telesthesia, retrocognition,
premonition,
clair-voyance, clair-audience, thought-reading, and
such other psychic phenomena, which are inexplicable to modern
science.
Every mental or physical phenomenon could be explained by
these all-embracing five orders or processes which are laws in
themselves. Kamma as such is only one of these five orders.
Like all other natural laws, they demand no lawgiver.
Of these five, the physical inorganic order, the physical organic
order and the order of the norm are more or less of the
mechanical type though they can be controlled to some extent
by human ingenuity and the power of mind. For example,
fire normally burns, and extreme cold freezes, but man has
walked unscathed over fire and meditated naked on Himalayan
snows; horticulturists have worked marvels with flowers


and fruits; and Yogis have performed levitation. Psychic law
is equally mechanical, but Buddhist training aims at control
of mind, which is possible by right understanding and skilful
volition. Kamma law operates quite automatically and, when
the Kamma is powerful, man cannot interfere with its inexorable
result though he may desire to do so; but here also right
understanding and skilful volition can accomplish much and
mould the future. Good Kamma, persisted in, can thwart the
reaping of bad.
Kamma is certainly an intricate law whose working is fully
comprehended only by a Buddha. The Buddhist aims at the
final destruction of all Kamma.
Kamma-Vipaka (fruit of action) is one of the four unthinkables
(acinteyya), states the Buddha in the Anguttara Nikāya.13
===========

http://www.buddhanet.net/pdf_file/buddh ... gsurw6.pdf
:reading:
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Fri Nov 29, 2013 11:46 pm

Ok i will read it also - that seems a better link - thanks for both

but until i wil read it and i might again not get it so -

if someone is rude to me - what other niyama can this be part of - except kamma niyama ?
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby SarathW » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:05 am

May be Dhamma Niyama is one reason. Their could be more than one reason.

the reason for being good, etc. may be included in this group.
***
See above
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Re: Kamma is responisable for everything ?

Postby purple planet » Sat Nov 30, 2013 12:12 am

the reason
for being good, etc.
what does this mean exactly ? (is it : the reason for others to be good to us ?)
Please send merit to my dog named Mika who has passed away - thanks in advance
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