Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

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BlackBird
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby BlackBird » Mon Dec 09, 2013 8:47 pm

Hi Thule. I am aware of these texts and any such undertaking will probably make use of them, the focus however is on the 'biography', specifically for me it's events said to have taken place that contradict the word of the Buddha in the Suttas that I wish to bring to account, in no small part because it's the 'biography' that is found across the globe in Theravadin monasteries for free distribution, it's the biography that people give attention to, the rest is tertiary material in my eyes.

Some years ago, I was staying in a monastery, and I was young and impressionable. I found the book sitting around in the cloister for free distribution, so I took it up to my kuti and more or less couldn't put it down, at the time I found it quite inspiring, not the part I now see as eternalistic, but the parts concerning kammathana, the life of the monk and if I'm quite honest, all the visiting devas and magical happenings. I bought into the doctrine because I was inspired by the austerity and what I saw as pure lifestyle. Fortunately when the monks realized I was reading this text we had some discussions and I remember at the time being quite a vocal defender of the text, going so far to say to one Ajahn: "Do you think Ven. Maha Boowa was lying? Do you think he just made it up?" in some accusatory tone. In my mind monks of such a calibre were pure, there's no way one earth they could possibly say anything other than the factual truth as it happened. I didn't realize many of the accounts in the biography had been through several ears, were quite secondary/tertiary sources and had probably suffered from Chinese Whispers syndrome. Fortunately for me (I think) the venerable Monks managed to convince me that much of the doctrine presented within was at odds with the word of the Buddha.

My own example I have used to illustrate this point: I think there are probably quite a number of people in the same situation I was in, who buy into it because of the beautiful writing, the romanticism of a holy life in the jungle, and may go on thinking that it's quite in line with the Buddha's teachings, to their own detriment.

with metta
Jack
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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greenjuice
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby greenjuice » Thu Dec 12, 2013 3:46 pm

Concerning the notion of transcendental speech I mentioned, I found that there was an early Buddhist schools which believed in something like that- Nyanaponika Mahathera, Guide through the Abhidhamma Pitaka, Kathavatthu question 20:

20. Is there such a thing as ‘supramundane’ (lokuttara) communicating, or conversing (vohāra), of a Buddha? The Andh. believed so. Cf. MN 117, where there is spoken of ‘supramundane right speech (vācā), and the other supramundane constituents of the Holy Eightfold Path. Correctly speaking, only mind connected with the stages of holiness, and Nirvana, are supramundane. (Cf. 106).

(Andh. are http://www.palikanon.com/english/pali_n ... dhakaa.htm )

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Sokehi
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Sokehi » Mon Dec 16, 2013 5:41 pm

Get the wanting out of waiting

What does womanhood matter at all, when the mind is concentrated well, when knowledge flows on steadily as one sees correctly into Dhamma. One to whom it might occur, ‘I am a woman’ or ‘I am a man’ or ‘I’m anything at all’ is fit for Mara to address. – SN 5.2

If they take what's yours, tell yourself that you're making it a gift.
Otherwise there will be no end to the animosity. - Ajahn Fuang Jotiko


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Alex123
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 13, 2014 11:20 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

chownah
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby chownah » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:12 am

So, did the buddha have a self which people actually saw 2500 years ago (more or less)....but the buddha no longer has a self so acharn mun could not have possibly spoken with him?
chownah

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Alex123
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:36 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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Alex123
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 2:57 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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daverupa
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby daverupa » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:07 am

They inter-relate: the voice of another and in/appropriate attention - text and practice.

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Mkoll
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Mkoll » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:29 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Dec 14, 2014 3:48 am

Image




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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:17 am

Though I posted this elsewhere, it likely will have something to say in this thread as well:

Something of interest concerning visions of the Buddha from Paul William’s BUDDHIST THOUGHT, PAGES 108-111. There is, in this discussion on meditative aspects of the origins of the Mahayana that are of interest when looking at claim by Maha Bua about himself and Ajahn Mun.


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Mkoll
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Mkoll » Sun Dec 14, 2014 5:51 am

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:02 am


MisterRunon
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby MisterRunon » Sun Dec 14, 2014 6:36 am

I don't have much to add to this topic.. but on a related note, I want to mention that sometimes I feel as if by the time I end up leaving this site, I do it knowing less than I originally knew.

:)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Dec 14, 2014 7:07 am


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Alex123
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Alex123 » Sun Dec 14, 2014 12:54 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

jan fessel
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby jan fessel » Sat Jan 03, 2015 7:00 pm

I am very grateful to all participants for this thread that has been surprising and highly educational for me to read.

:bow: :bow: :bow:

DGDC
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby DGDC » Sat Jan 23, 2016 1:33 pm

VINAYA
The Four Disrobing Offences

Ajahn Brahmavamso

"The four transgressions which incur a Parajika, the penalty of automatic disrobal, are as follows:

1. Engaging in sexual intercourse with another being of either sex.
2. Stealing something of value (which includes smuggling, cheating or deliberately avoiding payment of a tax).

3. Purposely killing a human being or encouraging him or her to commit suicide (this includes inciting another to murder somebody and it also includes convincing a woman to have an abortion.

4. Boasting that one has realised a high spiritual attainment, knowing that one is lying. For example, claiming to be enlightened, to be Maitreya Buddha, to have entered Jhana (deep meditation-ecstasy) or that one can read minds when one knows that one hasn't reached any of these states.

Should any monk or nun do any of these then you may know them as no longer holding the status of Buddhist monk or nun. They must disrobe. Should they attempt to hide their transgression and not disrobe then it is said that the bad karma produced is extreme indeed!

In these four disrobing offences there is no excuse for ignorance. In a story related in the Buddhist scriptures [1], a newly ordained monk who had not as yet been instructed in the Vinaya was cajoled by his former wife into having sexual intercourse with her. When he told the other monks of this, they approached the Buddha and asked what should be done. The Buddha decreed that the offending monk had to disrobe and in future all monks were to be told of the Four Things Not to be Done, the four Parajika, immediately after they have been ordained. Indeed, instructing the new monk in these four rules has now become part of the Ordination Ceremony itself. So there can be no excuse!"

The Vinaya rules given above were applicable to BHIKKUS at the time of the Lord. They are no more. The bhikkhus of today are sammutisangha. I am not aware of the rules they follow.

Achan Muns statement is a transgression of rule 4 only if he were a "BHIKKHU". But then, all those who talk publicly about such rules are parajika.

Vinaya rules vanished with the first split of Sangha (historically speaking). Dhamma would have vanished earlier.

Today is an Uposatha day.
May you get a chance to see a future Lord (Bhagava) and listen to him and learn Lord's Dhamma (Bhagavata Dhammo).

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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sat Jan 23, 2016 2:23 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

DGDC
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Re: Buddha talked to Acharn Mun?

Postby DGDC » Sun Mar 27, 2016 9:55 am

Bhikkhu Pesala
I read about Achan Mun in the book Patipada, I think, by Achan Mahaboowa. There is no disrespect whatsoever of Acharn Mun. I have the highest respect for him as a yogi. However, he is not a member of the Sangha defined by 'Supatipanno bhagavato savakasangho...'

No one ca see Lord Buddha or Arahants after their 'parinibbana without remainder.'

Thank you for the reply.DGDC


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