W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dhamma

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
culaavuso
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by culaavuso »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:
"Wander, monks, in your proper range, your own ancestral territory. When you wander in your proper range, your own ancestral territory, you will grow in long life, beauty, pleasure, wealth, & strength.
To interpret what is meant by ancestral territory, other suttas provide an explanation:

SN 47.6
SN 47.6: Sakunagghi Sutta wrote: Wander, monks, in what is your proper range, your own ancestral territory. In one who wanders in what is his proper range, his own ancestral territory, Mara gains no opening, Mara gains no foothold. And what, for a monk, is his proper range, his own ancestral territory? The four frames of reference. Which four? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This, for a monk, is his proper range, his own ancestral territory.
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tiltbillings
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by tiltbillings »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote: how can you make a snap judgement on Koenraad Elst like that?
Now, that is funny. You imply that Brahman born north Indian Lal Mani Joshi is likely a hater of north Indians and that he is Sinhalese who is likely a Marxist, based upon nothing that you could show.

As for your personal feelings about religion, that is all very nice, but I'll stick with reputable scholars and reputable histories that are not driven by cultural agendas.

wow you seem to be quite hung up on the fact that he is a Brahman..as if one being born a Brahman would not imbibe left liberal cultural Marxism ala Jwaharlal Nehru
The point was, in response to your unfounded culturally biased "assessment", that Joshi was likely a Sinhalese Marxist who was not fond of north Indians has no basis in fact. What Nehru did or did not do does not say anything about what Joshi did or did not do.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Shaswata_Panja
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

culaavuso wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:
"Wander, monks, in your proper range, your own ancestral territory. When you wander in your proper range, your own ancestral territory, you will grow in long life, beauty, pleasure, wealth, & strength.
To interpret what is meant by ancestral territory, other suttas provide an explanation:

SN 47.6
SN 47.6: Sakunagghi Sutta wrote: Wander, monks, in what is your proper range, your own ancestral territory. In one who wanders in what is his proper range, his own ancestral territory, Mara gains no opening, Mara gains no foothold. And what, for a monk, is his proper range, his own ancestral territory? The four frames of reference. Which four? There is the case where a monk remains focused on the body in & of itself — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. He remains focused on feelings in & of themselves... mind in & of itself... mental qualities in & of themselves — ardent, alert, & mindful — putting aside greed & distress with reference to the world. This, for a monk, is his proper range, his own ancestral territory.


Thanks but I guess if you are not a monk patriotism is not something forbidden by Buddha...else Sinhalese Buddhists wont
have gone to war and be such hostile to Non-Buddhists now.....same with case in Myanmar...Buddhism is 99 percent for the monks...most if the suttas are for the benefit of the monks...
visitin
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by visitin »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:Hindus and Buddhists are BROTHERS IN DHARMA..OUR GREAT ENEMY ARE MUSLIMS---see how Burmese monks are reacting..The Most Buddhist Nation perhapson Earth
Not just Hindus and Buddhists, but all religious fanatics, be it Christans, Muslims or of any other religion, are brothers in Dharma. None of them can tolerate the spread of others. One of the benefits of subscribing to a religion is, becoming insecure of other.
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tiltbillings
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by tiltbillings »

visitin wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:Hindus and Buddhists are BROTHERS IN DHARMA..OUR GREAT ENEMY ARE MUSLIMS---see how Burmese monks are reacting..The Most Buddhist Nation perhapson Earth
Not just Hindus and Buddhists, but all religious fanatics, be it Christans, Muslims or of any other religion, are brothers in Dharma. None of them can tolerate the spread of others. One of the benefits of subscribing to a religion is, becoming insecure of other.
If we have to view Muslims as our GREAT ENEMY, we are not BROTHERS IN DHARMA, we are BROTHERS IN STUPID.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Mkoll
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Mkoll »

tiltbillings wrote:
visitin wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:Hindus and Buddhists are BROTHERS IN DHARMA..OUR GREAT ENEMY ARE MUSLIMS---see how Burmese monks are reacting..The Most Buddhist Nation perhapson Earth
Not just Hindus and Buddhists, but all religious fanatics, be it Christans, Muslims or of any other religion, are brothers in Dharma. None of them can tolerate the spread of others. One of the benefits of subscribing to a religion is, becoming insecure of other.
If we have to view Muslims as our GREAT ENEMY, we are not BROTHERS IN DHARMA, we are BROTHERS IN STUPID.
:rofl:

I laughed.
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Shaswata_Panja
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

tiltbillings wrote:
visitin wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:Hindus and Buddhists are BROTHERS IN DHARMA..OUR GREAT ENEMY ARE MUSLIMS---see how Burmese monks are reacting..The Most Buddhist Nation perhapson Earth
Not just Hindus and Buddhists, but all religious fanatics, be it Christans, Muslims or of any other religion, are brothers in Dharma. None of them can tolerate the spread of others. One of the benefits of subscribing to a religion is, becoming insecure of other.
If we have to view Muslims as our GREAT ENEMY, we are not BROTHERS IN DHARMA, we are BROTHERS IN STUPID.

OK that was a bit of comic exaggeration, but any totalitarian ideology that spreads like malignant cancer (Evangelical religions, communism. Maoism) is an existential threat to Zoroastrianism, European and Greek Paganism, Dharmic ideologies, African animism, Tengriism and so on....the latter are more about harmonious and organic growth...where are the devotees of Thor,Odin, Wotan and Asatru?...why have they gone extinct? History demands an answer
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tiltbillings
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by tiltbillings »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:why have they gone extinct? History demands an answer
What is the Hindutvavadi/Hindū rāṣṭravādi answer to the Hindu role in Buddhism's demise in India. Islam played a part, but it certainly was not the only player.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
Shaswata_Panja
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

tiltbillings wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:why have they gone extinct? History demands an answer
What is the Hindutvavadi/Hindū rāṣṭravādi answer to the Hindu role in Buddhism's demise in India. Islam played a part, but it certainly was not the only player.
Dunno but they are generally extremely favourable to any homegrown religion---even Carvaka...Veer Savarkar was a Carvaka...Dalai Lama is best pals/BFF with the Sangh Parivar and RSS...only a few days back he sung their praise...especially since RSS cadres also went up against the Chinese on their own free-will in 1962

Burmese once killed Hindus in the 50s I think....(Bengalis) ...it was not because of any doctrinal dispute or anti-Hinduism sentiments...it was because Bengalis were occupying the top jobs....So it was more of Burmese on Bengali violence rather than Buddhists on Hindu violence

when the Sri-Lankan civil war started out it was more of an ethnic violence.....but in the later stages of the war with Buddhist Bala Sena and all , Buddhism and Sinhalese racial pride were welded together....there was no corresponding rise in Hindu fundementalism because the LTTE was funded by Christian evangelists from all over the world with Christian Norway acting as the chief advisor...(The Top leadership of LTTE were wholesale Christian converts--suspicious and Sinhalese never ever fail to point this out...this is the reason why big parties never got behind LTTE in India)

So as I said violence between Hindus and Buddhists (but not because of doctrinal difference) have happened even 5 years back and Hindus were overwhelming losers then..are we crying up and down here about that? We are taking all of it sportingly

Why do you not see the tremendous losses suffered by Buddhism in the hand of Islam? Kabul was under Hindu influence during the the time of Shahis...but the rest 85-90% of Afghanistan was Buddhist...Big Chunks of Central Asia was lost to Islam, Western China (province of the Uyghurs) lost to Islam, NoKo lost to communism, SoKo lost to evangelical Christianity (that too in the pace of a few decades), Malaysia,Indonesia (behemoth of a country with equally rich Hindu and Buddhist past) lost to Islam, same for Brunei , East Timor and Philippines


Were Hindus responsible for wiping out of Buddhism in much of its former Geographical reach?

Now Muslims are making a surge in Burma and Christian evangelists in Thailand and Sri Lanka...if these three get wiped out then what will happen? Isn't it time to realize that for Buddhists Hindus are not the enemies and vice versa? Havenot Buddhist seen already the evil Western Christian designs for Buddhist women?
Western Christians with Bible in One Hand and the M16 rifle in the other have made Buddhist women of entire villages and towns as tourist pleasurers/sex-workers...many of them have become socially ostracized single mothers because of callous Christian men from the West....so many Christian NGOs are just fronts to supply and groom children of third World countries as abuse material for Catholic priests


In spite of all this..We are your greatest enemies...Even Baba Saheb Ambedkar said though he wanted to leave Hinduism, converting to a foreign religion like Islam will seriously threaten India's integrity...either he or Kancha Illeah took a million Dalits of the Mahar caste and first approached Sikhism...the Jat Sikhs for the fear of being outnumbered were a bit reticent though agreeing previously...then he chose Buddhism.....See what Baba Saheb had to say about Muslims and partition

I would rather have a 14% Buddhist population in India (the bare minimum ..it should be close to 50%) rather than 14% Muslim population..I think Ambedkar would also have preferred that


and if you are just trying to pull the legs of Hindus, let me return the favour?

Werenot it Buddhist priests who invited Muhammad Bin Qasim to invade Sindh in 712 AD?
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tiltbillings
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by tiltbillings »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:why have they gone extinct? History demands an answer
What is the Hindutvavadi/Hindū rāṣṭravādi answer to the Hindu role in Buddhism's demise in India. Islam played a part, but it certainly was not the only player.
. . .
You certainly do know how to not answer a question with a flourish.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
visitin
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by visitin »

Shaswata_Panja wrote: any totalitarian ideology that spreads like malignant cancer (Evangelical religions, communism. Maoism) is an existential threat to Zoroastrianism, European and Greek Paganism, Dharmic ideologies, African animism, Tengriism and so on....the latter are more about harmonious and organic growth..
What kind of threat as posed by the totalitarians to the dharmics, could compel the dharmics to carry out a massacre against totalitarians?

1- Forced conversion.
2- Conversion by allurement.
3- Conversion by inter-religion marriages(consented by both bride and groom).
4- Growth in population.

"Forced conversion" couldn't even be the remote possibility given that the majority in India, Srilanka and Burma are dharmics.
Shaswata_Panja
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

visitin wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote: any totalitarian ideology that spreads like malignant cancer (Evangelical religions, communism. Maoism) is an existential threat to Zoroastrianism, European and Greek Paganism, Dharmic ideologies, African animism, Tengriism and so on....the latter are more about harmonious and organic growth..
What kind of threat as posed by the totalitarians to the dharmics, could compel the dharmics to carry out a massacre against totalitarians?

1- Forced conversion.
2- Conversion by allurement.
3- Conversion by inter-religion marriages(consented by both bride and groom).
4- Growth in population.

"Forced conversion" couldn't even be the remote possibility given that the majority in India, Srilanka and Burma are dharmics.

There is nothing more adharmic than massacre--if you are a true Dharmic renounce that idea....but the biggest weapons in the hands of the asuric/demonic adhamric forces are Psychological Warfare, favour from the English left-liberal media in the above-mentioned countries (english speaking left liberals in India are quite unctous in their approach to Western Christianity and Communism) and huge pool of resources


The Only thing we will have in our favour are good ethics and more importantly Psychological Warfare back in the belly of the beast i.e. Western Countries and Islamic countries (a bit more difficult because of the thuglike attitude of many fundie Muslims)---Dhammawheel is doing its part--and thats great


Non-Abrahamic ideologies (Communism is just Christianity wihout the Church, New Atheism is a Siamese twin of Protestantism) belive in live and let live....something every conquering Abrahamic ideologies cannot come to terms with--------short term we need to only concentrate on personal practice and ethics and self-restraint ----------mid term we need to totally secure our home bases---long term we need to send in crack team religious commandos like Swami Vivekananda,Angurika Dharmapala,Virachand Gandhi who can operate deep behind enemy lines and wreck havoc on the enemy infrastructure and troop morale (lower number of missionaries and ever decreasing money for the missions)


Hope this helps


Adharmic Christians use a long term softening approach...its not necessary for them to save individual souls...more important is to lay the groundwork so in a few generations, the whole community make a whole sale switch to Jesus doctrine.....sometimes with Buddhists they will say high of the Buddha...say Buddha was a champion against supersition and polytheism...they will say Buddha didnot speak of One God because the environment was too hostile..so he thought at least to wean the people away from polytheism....We,Christians, are here to free you benighted natives from the clutches of false beliefs completely and help you embrace MONOTHEISM.....the evangelicals have a level of sophistication that dharmics simply cannot match

and the psychological warfare wrecked on Buddhist men of Thailand is too much! Western Christian men routinely load thai Buddhist women on their shoulders and walk off..Most of the times they dishonour these Budhist women by not marrying them and only physically enjoying them...Innocent Buddhist women are misled that Jesus-like and Jesus-looking Western Christian men will treat them far better than Ogrish Buddhist and Buddha-looking Thai men....

See how many movies West churns out celebrating their prowess in making a Buddhist paradise the sex tourism capital of the world--If this is not humiliation I dont know what is...these Christian men have worse in store for them than the 4 seducers of Savitthi

I dare Christians doing the same trick with Muslim women or with Sinhalese Buddhist women!

If this doesnot make you feel disturbed Buddhists, I don't know what will..you could have a pass, if you were monk...but you are not
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Mkoll
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Mkoll »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:Non-Abrahamic ideologies (Communism is just Christianity wihout the Church, New Atheism is a Siamese twin of Protestantism) belive in live and let live....something every conquering Abrahamic ideologies cannot come to terms with--------short term we need to only concentrate on personal practice and ethics and self-restraint ----------mid term we need to totally secure our home bases---long term we need to send in crack team religious commandos like Swami Vivekananda,Angurika Dharmapala,Virachand Gandhi who can operate deep behind enemy lines and wreck havoc on the enemy infrastructure and troop morale (lower number of missionaries and ever decreasing money for the missions)
These words make it sound like you think there is a war amongst religions and that you think we should fan the flames. As tilt so baldly put it, we are "BROTHERS IN STUPID" if we want to encourage that route. Aren't there enough wars and violence in this world already? How could it possibly be beneficial to create more division amongst human beings?

Foolish religious people may fight and kill amongst each other, but that doesn't mean you or anyone else has to join them in their act of imbecility. What do all religious teachings and common human decency have in common? The urge not to kill, steal, lie, or commit sexual misconduct. Fools who do such things make life s**tty for everyone else and are laying down bricks in front of them as they walk their own road to hell. Don't encourage them.
Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

-Dhp 5
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Shaswata_Panja
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by Shaswata_Panja »

Mkoll wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote:Non-Abrahamic ideologies (Communism is just Christianity wihout the Church, New Atheism is a Siamese twin of Protestantism) belive in live and let live....something every conquering Abrahamic ideologies cannot come to terms with--------short term we need to only concentrate on personal practice and ethics and self-restraint ----------mid term we need to totally secure our home bases---long term we need to send in crack team religious commandos like Swami Vivekananda,Angurika Dharmapala,Virachand Gandhi who can operate deep behind enemy lines and wreck havoc on the enemy infrastructure and troop morale (lower number of missionaries and ever decreasing money for the missions)
These words make it sound like you think there is a war amongst religions and that you think we should fan the flames. As tilt so baldly put it, we are "BROTHERS IN STUPID" if we want to encourage that route. Aren't there enough wars and violence in this world already? How could it possibly be beneficial to create more division amongst human beings?

Foolish religious people may fight and kill amongst each other, but that doesn't mean you or anyone else has to join them in their act of imbecility. What do all religious teachings and common human decency have in common? The urge not to kill, steal, lie, or commit sexual misconduct. Fools who do such things make life s**tty for everyone else and are laying down bricks in front of them as they walk their own road to hell. Don't encourage them.
Hatred is never appeased by hatred in this world. By non-hatred alone is hatred appeased. This is a law eternal.

-Dhp 5

Please I am not talking of hate and warfare....when did I give a call to arms? I painted the picture as it is..and said ethics and self-restraint will win us the day and we have to build from that..Angaria Dharmapala was not happy just being a celibate half-monk..He had his work cut out for him to save Buddhism from evangelical onslaught...You think what he did was wrong? .I use the crack team of commados analogy since military terminologies are clinical...


Did Angurika Dharmapala make war in Chicago? Did Swami Vivekananda encourage the same in other parts of America? No

But if they were not there...there probably would not have been a Buddhadhamma for many modernistas to follow
visitin
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Re: W. Buddhism is based more on Atheism-materialism than Dh

Post by visitin »

Shaswata_Panja wrote:
visitin wrote:
Shaswata_Panja wrote: any totalitarian ideology that spreads like malignant cancer (Evangelical religions, communism. Maoism) is an existential threat to Zoroastrianism, European and Greek Paganism, Dharmic ideologies, African animism, Tengriism and so on....the latter are more about harmonious and organic growth..
What kind of threat as posed by the totalitarians to the dharmics, could compel the dharmics to carry out a massacre against totalitarians?

1- Forced conversion.
2- Conversion by allurement.
3- Conversion by inter-religion marriages(consented by both bride and groom).
4- Growth in population.

"Forced conversion" couldn't even be the remote possibility given that the majority in India, Srilanka and Burma are dharmics.

There is nothing more adharmic than massacre--if you are a true Dharmic renounce that idea...
Let me try again,

Graham Staines (an Australian Christian missionary who, along with his two sons Philip (aged 10) and Timothy (aged 6), was burnt to death by a gang while sleeping in his station wagon at Manoharpur village in Keonjhar district in Odisha,Indiaon 22 January 1999. In 2003), Godhra riots, Malegaon blast, Ajmer blast, Samjhauta blast, Muzzafarnagar riot etc.

Who is responsible for above incidents?
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