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Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong? - Dhamma Wheel

Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Rahula
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Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Rahula » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:40 pm

:anjali:

I was listening to a series of talks by John Peacock and came across his speech 'Metta as a path to awakening' (http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/207/).

There he talks about 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' and at one point (See 4:30 min on http://www.audiodharma.org/teacher/207/)
he translates
"... Nahi jatu gabbaha seyyam punaretiti ..."
as
"...one who practices this will never come to be reborn again..."

But as I understand it should be translated as ' will never be conceived in a womb' not as 'never come to be reborn'.
(http://www.londonbuddhistvihara.org/Kar ... 0Sutta.pdf
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html)

Then he identify this as awakening since only awaken ones never come to be reborn.

I see this as a misinterpretation, since it talks about one form of birth, birth by a womb and there are 4 forms of birth in Buddhist text.

Please share your knowledge here.
Did John Peacock got it wrong.
------------------------------------------
Edit:
This talk by Dr.Peacock is about 'Metta as a path to awakening'. If he doesn't interpret this sutta text as "...one who practices this will never come to be reborn again...", he may not consider it as awakening. So his entire talk/teaching 'Metta as a path to awakening' might change. His entire talk is based on the conclusion.

(I wanted to add above since the question seems not descriptive enough. And it was questioned in a comment bellow.)
Last edited by Rahula on Thu Jan 23, 2014 7:36 am, edited 1 time in total.

Shaswata_Panja
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Shaswata_Panja » Wed Jan 15, 2014 1:59 pm


santa100
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby santa100 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 2:45 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:42 pm

Yes, he got it wrong. It means not being reborn in a womb again, i.e. attaining Non-returning, not Arahantship, but the Non-returners inevitably attain Arahantship in the Pure Abods of the Brahma Realms.

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

Digity
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Digity » Wed Jan 15, 2014 4:52 pm

My understanding is that metta alone is not sufficient for awakening.

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mikenz66
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 6:34 pm


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Rahula
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Rahula » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:22 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 7:36 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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Mkoll
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Mkoll » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:30 pm

Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa
Namo tassa bhagavato arahato samma sambuddhassa

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tiltbillings
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 15, 2014 8:39 pm


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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby culaavuso » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:29 pm



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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:34 pm

• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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tiltbillings
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 15, 2014 9:35 pm


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mikenz66
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Jan 15, 2014 10:13 pm


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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:02 pm

Perhaps the message of his talk on loving-kindness got lost in translation ? :stirthepot:
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

SarathW
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby SarathW » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:18 pm

“As the lamp consumes oil, the path realises Nibbana”

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tiltbillings
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Jan 15, 2014 11:45 pm


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kirk5a
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby kirk5a » Thu Jan 16, 2014 12:54 am

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

pegembara
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby pegembara » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:23 am

And what is right speech? Abstaining from lying, from divisive speech, from abusive speech, & from idle chatter: This is called right speech.

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Rahula
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Re: Did John Peacock got 'Karaniya Metta Sutta' wrong?

Postby Rahula » Thu Jan 16, 2014 4:34 am



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