Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism today

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Apr 20, 2014 12:59 am

A new video from our friend, FreelanceExB:



Interesting observations. Are secular Buddhists -- Buddhist apologetics? (He doesn't use the term apologetics, but Euhemerism implies that) Are some of the modern interpretations that tend to make the Buddha pc nothing but Buddhist apologetics too?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:51 am

fivebells wrote:
Kasina wrote:Alright, now you've got my attention. Give me and example of a legitimate practice then. I'm genuinely curious.
:anjali:


A legitimate practice which leads to mind states reflected in protracted bitter rants about other people's fraudulence and ignorance? Gee, this sounds like so much fun. Where do I sign up?


This is exactly the impression I'm getting as I read more of Mazard's stuff... I don't really know about this guy.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Aloka » Sun Apr 20, 2014 5:23 am

David N. Snyder wrote:A new video from our friend, FreelanceExB:



Interesting observations. Are secular Buddhists -- Buddhist apologetics? (He doesn't use the term apologetics, but Euhemerism implies that) Are some of the modern interpretations that tend to make the Buddha pc nothing but Buddhist apologetics too?



Thanks for posting the video, David.

:anjali:

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby pulga » Sun Apr 20, 2014 6:36 am

David N. Snyder wrote:Interesting observations.


I found the video thought-provoking from beginning to end, and nicely presented.

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Aloka » Sun Apr 20, 2014 7:04 am

pulga wrote:
David N. Snyder wrote:Interesting observations.


I found the video thought-provoking from beginning to end, and nicely presented.


Me too, I really enjoyed it.


:anjali:

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:27 am

So his conclusion is that the real, unmodernised, Buddhism is not something he wants to be involved with? Hence his user name...

Mike

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 20, 2014 10:31 am

I have to say, such discussions worry me somewhat.
I keep my head down, stick to the 4, the 8 and the 5.

I have enough trouble doing that constantly, with good effort and Concentration, without putting my head above the parapet....

Is that too simplistic a view?
Am I wrong?
Should I probe to such excess?
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby pulga » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:41 pm

.
Last edited by pulga on Tue Apr 22, 2014 3:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby fivebells » Sun Apr 20, 2014 1:55 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:Is that too simplistic a view?
Am I wrong?
Should I probe to such excess?


I think he's presenting a false dichotomy. It's perfectly reasonable to accept that some fraction of a text may have been written with corrupt intentions and pick and choose from it the material which works for you. You don't have to choose between throwing the whole thing out or buying into the corruption.

The Pali canon doesn't just contain Buddhist philosophy and attacks on competing religions. Among other things, it also contains a wealth of practice instruction. I take the plausible instructions and try them out. What works from there in my own life, I bring into my practice. The philosophy and history are red herrings with, as he notes, a very nihilistic flavor, and therefore not topics a happy life tends to spend much time on.

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:03 pm

mikenz66 wrote:So his conclusion is that the real, unmodernised, Buddhism is not something he wants to be involved with? Hence his user name...

Mike


I've read enough on him to know not to give him the time of day.
:coffee:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Anagarika » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:22 pm

Kasina wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:So his conclusion is that the real, unmodernised, Buddhism is not something he wants to be involved with? Hence his user name...

Mike


I've read enough on him to know not to give him the time of day.
:coffee:


Yet, as I have suggested, iron sharpens iron. Can we afford to ignore what he is presenting? Even the Buddha suggested that we exercise this discernment in our own practice, and there is the challenge to look at sacred cows and see if they are worthy of question or rejection. This, to me, makes for a healthier Dhamma. I have no worries that someone is going to come along and demonstrate that the Pali Canon is a fable, or that the core teachings we know as Dhamma are unreliable. It has been vetted to my satisfaction that, separating the Dhamma wheat from the mythological chaff, it is a reliable record of the teachings of a bald enrobed human monk, very mortal, very influential, samma sambhuddasa. So, I am happy to listen to and read the scholarship, good, bad, or indifferent, that causes us to question modern positions on various issues.

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:36 pm

Ex.

Freelance wrote:"[On the one hand, the ancient Pali texts very clearly say that Buddhist monks who had attained nirvana could fly through the air like Superman, but,] nobody wants to teach a version of Buddhism that says 2,000 years ago, monks could fly, but, today, people have lost the art, nobody is meditating [properly], nobody is attaining nirvana [anymore]."


Ok, let's take a look then:

The Miracle of Psychic Power
"And what is the miracle of psychic power? There is the case where a monk wields manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, and mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun and moon, so mighty and powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.

"Then someone who has faith and conviction in him sees him wielding manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. He reports this to someone who has no faith and no conviction, telling him, 'Isn't it awesome. Isn't it astounding, how great the power, how great the prowess of this contemplative. Just now I saw him wielding manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.'

"Then the person without faith, without conviction, would say to the person with faith and with conviction: 'Sir, there is a charm called the Gandhari charm (an item that grants supernatural powers) by which the monk wielded manifold psychic powers... exercising influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds.' What do you think, Kevatta — isn't that what the man without faith, without conviction, would say to the man with faith and with conviction?"

"Yes, lord, that's just what he would say."

"Seeing this drawback to the miracle of psychic power, Kevatta, I feel horrified, humiliated, and disgusted with the miracle of psychic power.


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Here the Buddha explains types of psychic powers after Kevatta begs numerous times to see them. However, never once is it said, in the entire sutta (which is massive!) even the word "Nibbana". Nor are any analogues mentioned in the part about psychic powers. Simple reading will show that the Buddha never says that a monk need be awakened to have such powers, and not only that, he denounces them as poor means of conversion, calling the dhamma the real gift, the real miracle.

By the way, I checked the pali as well, and there's no instance of nibbana or any nibbana analogues in the first portion of the text describing psychic powers.

FreeExB is misleading us by cherry picking, and as clearly shown above, misrepresenting info.

:shrug:
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:41 pm

Anagarika wrote:
Kasina wrote:
mikenz66 wrote:So his conclusion is that the real, unmodernised, Buddhism is not something he wants to be involved with? Hence his user name...

Mike


I've read enough on him to know not to give him the time of day.
:coffee:


Yet, as I have suggested, iron sharpens iron. Can we afford to ignore what he is presenting? Even the Buddha suggested that we exercise this discernment in our own practice, and there is the challenge to look at sacred cows and see if they are worthy of question or rejection. This, to me, makes for a healthier Dhamma. I have no worries that someone is going to come along and demonstrate that the Pali Canon is a fable, or that the core teachings we know as Dhamma are unreliable. It has been vetted to my satisfaction that, separating the Dhamma wheat from the mythological chaff, it is a reliable record of the teachings of a bald enrobed human monk, very mortal, very influential, samma sambhuddasa. So, I am happy to listen to and read the scholarship, good, bad, or indifferent, that causes us to question modern positions on various issues.


That is all very true, and I agree.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 2:52 pm

Yet another instance when the Buddha says the same of psychic powers, and where a Brahmin gives evidence that (if these phenomena are real) psychic powers where practiced widely in the past:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Master Gotama, this was the topic of conversation that arose today when the royal court sat gathered in the royal palace: 'In the past, there were fewer monks but more who, endowed with superior human attainments, displayed the miracle of psychic power. Now there are more monks but fewer who, endowed with superior human attainments, display the miracle of psychic power. This, Master Gotama, was the topic of conversation that arose today when the royal court sat gathered in the royal palace."

"Brahman, there are these three miracles. Which three? The miracle of psychic power, the miracle of telepathy, & the miracle of instruction.

"And what is the miracle of psychic power? There is the case where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. This is called the miracle of psychic power.


And so for telepathy, instruction...

"Now, brahman, of these three miracles, which one appeals to you as the highest & most sublime?"

"Master Gotama, of these three miracles, the miracle of psychic power where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers... (and) exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.

"As for the miracle where a certain person by means of a sign or vision... by hearing the voice of human beings, non-human beings, or devas... by hearing the sound of the directed thought & evaluation of a person thinking directed thoughts and evaluating, [saying,] 'Such is your thinking, here is where your thinking is, thus is your mind.' ... [or] who by having attained a concentration devoid of directed thought & evaluation, and encompassing the awareness [of the other] with his own awareness, he discerns, 'Given the way the mental fabrications of this venerable person are inclined, the directed thoughts of his mind will immediately think about this.' And however much he may read, that's exactly how it is, and not otherwise: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.

"As for the miracle where a certain person gives instruction in this way: 'Direct your thought in this way, don't direct it in that. Attend to things in this way, don't attend to them in that. Let go of this, enter and remain in that': this is the miracle that, of the three, appeals to me as the highest & most sublime.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Anagarika » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:06 pm

Kasina wrote:Yet another instance when the Buddha says the same of psychic powers, and where a Brahmin gives evidence that (if these phenomena are real) psychic powers where practiced widely in the past:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"Master Gotama, this was the topic of conversation that arose today when the royal court sat gathered in the royal palace: 'In the past, there were fewer monks but more who, endowed with superior human attainments, displayed the miracle of psychic power. Now there are more monks but fewer who, endowed with superior human attainments, display the miracle of psychic power. This, Master Gotama, was the topic of conversation that arose today when the royal court sat gathered in the royal palace."

"Brahman, there are these three miracles. Which three? The miracle of psychic power, the miracle of telepathy, & the miracle of instruction.

"And what is the miracle of psychic power? There is the case where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in and out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches and strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. This is called the miracle of psychic power.


And so for telepathy, instruction...

"Now, brahman, of these three miracles, which one appeals to you as the highest & most sublime?"

"Master Gotama, of these three miracles, the miracle of psychic power where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers... (and) exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.

"As for the miracle where a certain person by means of a sign or vision... by hearing the voice of human beings, non-human beings, or devas... by hearing the sound of the directed thought & evaluation of a person thinking directed thoughts and evaluating, [saying,] 'Such is your thinking, here is where your thinking is, thus is your mind.' ... [or] who by having attained a concentration devoid of directed thought & evaluation, and encompassing the awareness [of the other] with his own awareness, he discerns, 'Given the way the mental fabrications of this venerable person are inclined, the directed thoughts of his mind will immediately think about this.' And however much he may read, that's exactly how it is, and not otherwise: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.

"As for the miracle where a certain person gives instruction in this way: 'Direct your thought in this way, don't direct it in that. Attend to things in this way, don't attend to them in that. Let go of this, enter and remain in that': this is the miracle that, of the three, appeals to me as the highest & most sublime.


:goodpost:

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Kasina » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:31 pm

Anagarika wrote:
:goodpost:


It should be mentioned that afterwords, the Brahmin asks the Buddha if he has those powers:

"It is amazing, Master Gotama. It is astounding, how well this has been said by Master Gotama. And we hold that Master Gotama is endowed with these three marvels: Master Gotama wields manifold psychic powers... (and) exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. Having attained a concentration devoid of directed thought & evaluation, and encompassing the awareness [of the other] with his own awareness, Master Gotama discerns, 'Given the way the mental fabrications of this venerable person are inclined, the directed thoughts of his mind will immediately think about this.' Master Gotama gives instruction in this way: 'Direct your thought in this way, don't direct it in that. Attend to things in this way, don't attend to them in that. Let go of this, enter and remain in that.'"

"Of course, brahman, you have affronted me with your personal statement(This is strange. He sounds offended?), but nevertheless I will respond. Yes, I wield manifold psychic powers... (and) exercise influence with my body even as far as the Brahma worlds; having attained a concentration devoid of directed thought and evaluation, and encompassing the awareness [of the other] with my own awareness, I discern, 'Given the way the mental fabrications of this venerable person are inclined, the directed thoughts of his mind will immediately think about this.' I give instruction in this way: 'Direct your thought in this way, don't direct it in that. Attend to things in this way, don't attend to them in that. Let go of this, enter and remain in that.'"

"Aside from Master Gotama, is there another monk who is endowed with these three miracles?"

"Brahman, there are not only one hundred other monks... two... three... four... five hundred other monks: the monks who are endowed with these three miracles are many more than that."

"And, Master Gotama, where do those monks now live?"

"In this very same community of monks."

"Magnificent, Master Gotama! Magnificent! Just as if he were to place upright what was overturned, to reveal what was hidden, to show the way to one who was lost, or to carry a lamp into the dark so that those with eyes could see forms, in the same way has Master Gotama — through many lines of reasoning — made the Dhamma clear. I go to Master Gotama for refuge, to the Dhamma, & to the community of monks. May Master Gotama remember me as a lay follower who has gone for refuge from this day forward, for life."


The first set of psychic powers are confusing. Interestingly, in the Lohicca Sutta we find something that could shed quite a bit of light on the first set of powers:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, & bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, he directs & inclines it to creating a mind-made body. From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind, complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties. Just as if a man were to draw a reed from its sheath. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the sheath, this is the reed. The sheath is one thing, the reed another, but the reed has been drawn out from the sheath.' Or as if a man were to draw a sword from its scabbard. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the sword, this is the scabbard. The sword is one thing, the scabbard another, but the sword has been drawn out from the scabbard.' Or as if a man were to pull a snake out from its slough. The thought would occur to him: 'This is the snake, this is the slough. The snake is one thing, the slough another, but the snake has been pulled out from the slough.' In the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, & bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, the monk directs & inclines it to creating a mind-made body. From this body he creates another body, endowed with form, made of the mind, complete in all its parts, not inferior in its faculties. When a disciple of a teacher attains this sort of grand distinction, Lohicca, that is a teacher not worthy of criticism in the world, and if anyone were to criticize this sort of teacher, the criticism would be false, unfactual, unrighteous, & blameworthy.


Followed directly by:

"With his mind thus concentrated, purified, & bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability, he directs & inclines it to the modes of supranormal powers. He wields manifold supranormal powers. Having been one he becomes many; having been many he becomes one. He appears. He vanishes. He goes unimpeded through walls, ramparts, & mountains as if through space. He dives in & out of the earth as if it were water. He walks on water without sinking as if it were dry land. Sitting cross-legged he flies through the air like a winged bird. With his hand he touches & strokes even the sun & moon, so mighty & powerful. He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. Just as a skilled potter or his assistant could craft from well-prepared clay whatever kind of pottery vessel he likes, or as a skilled ivory-carver or his assistant could craft from well-prepared ivory any kind of ivory-work he likes, or as a skilled goldsmith or his assistant could craft from well-prepared gold any kind of gold article he likes; in the same way — with his mind thus concentrated, purified, & bright, unblemished, free from defects, pliant, malleable, steady, & attained to imperturbability — the monk directs & inclines it to the modes of supranormal powers... He exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds. When a disciple of a teacher attains this sort of grand distinction, Lohicca, that is a teacher not worthy of criticism in the world, and if anyone were to criticize this sort of teacher, the criticism would be false, unfactual, unrighteous, & blameworthy.


This appears to be a logical order. Could this "mind made body" refer to the phenomenon of astral projection?

The order in the sutta is this:

1. Abandoning the Hindrances
2.The Four Jhanas
3. Insight Knowledge
4.The Mind made body (first para. I have shown)
5. Supranormal Powers (second)
6. Clairaudience (mind reading, etc)
7. Recollection of Past Lives
8. The Passing Away and Reappearance of Beings
9. The Ending of Mental Fermentations

This appears as a map of more mundane factors leading up to supramundane ones. And the appearance of this "Mind-made body" is very interesting when we look at it appearing before such things as "flying through the air" (while sitting cross-legged. Hmmm...) or "touching the sun". This is especially interesting when Sangarava says:

"Master Gotama, of these three miracles, the miracle of psychic power where a certain person wields manifold psychic powers... (and) exercises influence with his body even as far as the Brahma worlds: that is a miracle experienced only by him who does it; it belongs only to him who does it. It seems to me to be of the nature of an illusion.


All very interesting.
"This world completely lacks essence;
It trembles in all directions.
I longed to find myself a place
Unscathed — but I could not see it."


Sn 4.15 PTS: Sn 935-951 "Attadanda Sutta: Arming Oneself"

"You will be required to do wrong no matter where you go... This is the curse at work, the curse that feeds on all life..."

Wilbur Mercer in Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep?

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Apr 20, 2014 3:35 pm

:thumbsup: Yes, good posts above. As FreelanceExB states, there are numerous superpower and mythological elements in the Canon. And in other religions there is the hagiography of raising the founder to god status and then the modern movement back to a more rational being. However, in Buddhism I don't think it was ever claimed that the Buddha was divine, son of another divine being, etc. The Pali Canon shows that the Buddha was a mortal human being, born to humans, someone who saw suffering, realized the Dhamma, taught, got old, got sick and died.

As others have mentioned, this is still a good topic to discuss and consider. Many of us came to Buddhism from other religions and some of us were put off by the apologetics found in our birth religions. We don't want to be Buddhist versions of apologetics. I think the points made above are good and show that although there is talk of superhuman powers, flying through the air, etc. the essence of the teachings, indeed, the highest teachings according to Buddha are those of the practice and the instruction. The powers were always considered inferior. We can do the practice and see on our own, to come and see if it works, Ehipassiko.

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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:34 pm

Thank you all so much for such carefully-researched and valued input.

"The more I find out, the less I know".
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEstgTAXyec&feature=kp

I stated in my introductory thread, when first joining, how little I know, how simple I am and how ignorant my practice is.
I seek to change that, and this helps.
But it scares the blue-and-green wits out of me.
I feel it amply demonstrates my inadequacy as a follower of the Buddha.
:cry:

back to reading.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby Aloka » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:37 pm

David N. Snyder wrote: However, in Buddhism I don't think it was ever claimed that the Buddha was divine, son of another divine being, etc.


According to Wikepedia:

In some Mahayana traditions, the Buddha is indeed worshipped as a virtual divinity who is possessed of supernatural qualities and powers. Dr. Guang Xing writes: "The Buddha worshiped by Mahayanist followers is an omnipotent divinity endowed with numerous supernatural attributes and qualities ...[He] is described almost as an omnipotent and almighty godhead."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/God_in_Buddhism





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David N. Snyder
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Re: Confronting what's ancient and what's not (in Buddhism t

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Apr 20, 2014 4:44 pm

Yes, you are correct about Mahayana Buddhism. I meant Theravada / early Buddhism.

And it is not a reinvention or reinterpretation of Theravada / early Buddhism to make him mortal or a human being who became a Buddha.


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