I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mehdi » Fri May 16, 2014 12:46 pm

waterchan wrote:
Mehdi wrote:...and having only 2 or 3 hours of personal time in a day...


No wonder you need regular nookie. Ever considered finding a job that is not so soul-draining, even if it pays less? Sounds like living a "Dhamma-compatible life" as you put it, is the least of your problems. This is just plain overworked.


Hmmm... This has always been in my mind since day 1, when I first crossed the door of an office space.
But until now I did have no luck so far. All my life I have been pushed toward a path that was not for me. Best High School in town, College, Corporate Job...
As I said, I tried to step off and run a home business but I screwed up. And now I'm in debt for a couple of years. But I accept it. At least I tried. I have no house, no asset so far, so besides this debt, I'm free. Broke, but free (lol). I'll keep it low in terms of working hours and job nature as soon as I can. But right now it is not really an option I guess.
Jut to mention, I know people working a hell lot more than me, I'm an average worker in this city. Most people in big cities wake up at seven, commute, work from 9 to 6:30, commute come home at 8, and sleep @11. This social model really shocked me at first. I really find it crazy and barely balanced nor acceptable.
However it was always presented to me as the norm and my reluctance to adopt this model was condemned and viewd as an exuberance. I felt like the only sane person in an insane asylum, but, hey, who are you to claim that, shut up and dig like everybody or you'll be left behind :)
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby daverupa » Fri May 16, 2014 1:32 pm

Sleeping earlier means having less free time at home, and having only 2 or 3 hours of personal time in a day. This makes me cry inside, really. I am subject to the schism between work life and personal life.


I can understand this; in my own case I came to be amazed when noticing how much time was being habitually consumed by vapid entertainments.

For example, I can say with confidence that about one-third of my collegiate career was spent gaming, computers mostly, some pool halls here and there. It felt like "this is why I'm doing all this other work", but that poor idiot didn't have a clue what he was doing to himself; working so hard to throw vapid sensuality at oneself, 'this is what it means to live the Good Life??'

For a long time I, too, tried to walk that walk, but eventually I had to leave, and I made an ex-wife during the process.

Mehdi wrote:Hmmm... This has always been in my mind since day 1, when I first crossed the door of an office space.


I now work as a custodian, largely in order to keep my mental space free. I don't mind telling the body to do this or that task, whatever. And being a pleasant and quiet person impacts the surrounding folk in positive ways.

Altogether, this life is so much better. No girlfriend, no sports fandom, no gaming, just quiet and peace and calm and less and less that hurts (some behemoths remain - grief, et al - but they are no longer informing me unconsciously as powerfully, which is an immeasurable boon in itself. Indeed, this Dhamma is good throughout the length of it, I can attest).

Perhaps for some, resultant lifestyles can look vegetative... after all, such a person isn't playing along the median cultural entertainment curve... but groupthink isn't very strong, as arguments go...
    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting oneself one protects others? By the pursuit, development, and cultivation of the four establishments of mindfulness. It is in such a way that by protecting oneself one protects others.

    "And how is it, bhikkhus, that by protecting others one protects oneself? By patience, harmlessness, goodwill, and sympathy. It is in such a way that by protecting others one protects oneself.
- Sedaka Sutta [SN 47.19]
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mehdi » Fri May 16, 2014 1:46 pm

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:"I burn my candle at both ends,
It burns both day and night;
But oh! my foes, and ah! my friends -
It gives a lovely light! "

Having read your last post, I can summarise in a short phrase: you want.

You want the best of ALL worlds.


Jeez Brother. you broke all my teeth with a single knock-out. :-/
I knew I was putting myself at risk and give a very bad image of myself by writing this post, but I was honest. I sincerely want to progress. The path to Dhamma is not easy, you know. I tried not to lie and be frank with you and myself. Even if this causes me to be judged with scathing words. But I am not here to embellish the truth, so i take responsibility for it. Is everything I do in life good ? No. Are all the decisions I take enlightened ? No. I admit. But, all in all, I am trying to give a raw sketch of the situation, but you might not have all the elements. Stories can be way more complicated than they seem. I am not taking advantage of no one. As I said, I really tried to bring this to an end many times but I failed because of my empathy to her sadness. you forgot to point that out. This time I will try to stand firm. She is not feeling well at all, and I am worried of her staying alone. I felt trapped in some way. God knows I tried to express clearly and honestly what I was feeling but it went unheard. Anyways.

As of my job... I just feel that if I was a a physiotherapist, for example, that would be more rewarding. Healing people and making them feel better, releasing their pain, is more fulfilling. I made choices through spite. And I take responsibility for it. Accepting my unfulfilling office job and being grateful for it was a chore, but I am slowly getting to it. Again, you do not have all the elements. Just before I take back my job, I spent a whole year living with 50$ a week, fall sick with no money to by medicine... I hanged out with the poorest people of my country and did not feel bad about it. Actually, come to think of it, I was happier then, cause I could get all the sleep I wanted, and had more time for myself. But I won't lie, it was socially difficult. So I moved back in town and got me this job and was grateful to find it and starting to have revenue again. I am sorry if my complains gave an image that is that bad, I did not mean it, honestly.

Now, in the style of the Sona Sutta

"You mis-manage your time to your own detriment, because you want to have your cake AND eat it."
"Yes Lord"

"You say you wish to devotedly follow the Dhamma and transcend worldly attachments (I paraphrase) but actually, you don't seem willing to commit to sacrificing aspects of your life which are superfluous and materialistic."
"Yes Lord"

"You are your own worst enemy, and until you sort your priorities and re-assess your View, Livelihood and Concentration, I'm afraid I am of the opinion that your dedication is far from either serious or committed."
"Yes Lord"

Now, I will pick up my broken teeth from the floor and ask you, in a humble way : What should I do ? Concretely ? Which steps to take now ?
I've been patiently cultivating Dhamma like a small plant between the sidewalk and the road all this time. But I feel it's time to take it to the next level.
I am working all I can on sensual pleasures, "god" is my witness. I did not mention it, but I was abstinent for 3 years, once. My choice. Waiting for "the right person". Now I know the only right person is me. But I am still a young and vigorous man. I asked my Vipassana teacher a while ago during a ten day retreat about this. And he told me that sensual desire would fall by itself like a rotten fruit. As long as I kept meditating diligently. Which I did. I'm still waiting, or doing something wrong, obviously. But I keep working on it. (Feels so unnatural though...)
Should I consider leaving the lay life once and for all after paying out my debt ?
What about my job ? Keep it and be grateful for it or leave it for something more fulfilling ?
(I know the answers are mine to give, but still asking...)

Besides, I've been studying all this alone for a couple of years now, and I am completely self-taught (just did a couple of retreats). But I have no guide, no one to show me the Path. I don't think reading books is enough, practicing alone is so difficult. You see : I've been doing all this stuff for years, and a single post on this forum gave me such valuable feedback I would never had alone, you see my point ? So i welcome every advice to cultivate Dhamma more efficiently or to find someone to guide me into this so I can take the right steps and do the right moves.

Peace.
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mehdi » Fri May 16, 2014 1:58 pm

daverupa , your example is so inspiring. I met a college drop-out friend before I graduated, He was a Public Garden Watchman. You make me think of him. Thank you for sharing your experience.
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Crazy cloud » Fri May 16, 2014 2:12 pm

Mehdi wrote:PS : Crazy Cloud, no, nobody knows about my nasty little secret. I lock myself down in the men's room lol. But I guess a few colleagues guessed what was happening lol. I have to sleep early to avoid this.


Hi my secret friend :tongue:

I just mentioned it, because I myself had a nice little secret, and nobody knew, just me and my clever little mind :stirthepot: But when I started looking deep into my own practice, and discovered that my "innocent" secret actually functioned like an open faucet, and trough that minor hole there was a leakage of energy - so I decided to close it, and then the practice became easier for me. So now I dont care how the workplace is, if the boss is crazy, or the job is boring - I do my best in every detail, no matter what, because it's very good for my spiritual development and walking the path

be a light on to oneself :candle:

Best regards!
your name Mori means forest like the infinite fresh green distances of your blindness
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mkoll » Fri May 16, 2014 2:36 pm

Mehdi wrote:I asked my Vipassana teacher a while ago during a ten day retreat about this. And he told me that sensual desire would fall by itself like a rotten fruit. As long as I kept meditating diligently. Which I did. I'm still waiting, or doing something wrong, obviously. But I keep working on it. (Feels so unnatural though...)

That's not how it works. If you're indulging in sex, then to expect that sensual desire will just fall away is ludicrous, even if you're meditating 12 hours a day.

Mehdi wrote:Should I consider leaving the lay life once and for all after paying out my debt ?

Not if your mind is where it's at now, judging from your posts. But you can change things.

Mehdi wrote:Besides, I've been studying all this alone for a couple of years now, and I am completely self-taught (just did a couple of retreats). But I have no guide, no one to show me the Path. I don't think reading books is enough, practicing alone is so difficult. You see : I've been doing all this stuff for years, and a single post on this forum gave me such valuable feedback I would never had alone, you see my point ? So i welcome every advice to cultivate Dhamma more efficiently or to find someone to guide me into this so I can take the right steps and do the right moves.

Peace.

As Crazy cloud said in his very nice post, "be a light unto yourself".
Peace,
James
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mehdi » Fri May 16, 2014 2:53 pm

Crazy Cloud, So that was you. I knew somebody was spying on me :p
And yes, I see what you mean. It takes time, and I'm doing better as time goes by.

Mkoll,"being a light unto myself" is obviously misleading me for now, and, from what I read from you guys, I'm doing it all wrong, haha.
So that's an easy line to throw, but it's not that easy. I read, learn, try stuff, but still am so lost I guess. Before the feedback I had here I thought I was not doing that bad, as I turned, in a few years, from a very emotionally disturbed and easily offended person, to a much smoother and calm person, pursuing my ego as much as I can to unveil it, accepting impermanence, and so on. But I still have so much to learn.
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Fri May 16, 2014 2:58 pm

Mehdi wrote:Jeez Brother. you broke all my teeth with a single knock-out. :-/

Not so much a knock-out blow as a good.thwack with a Keisaku...

....As I said, I really tried to bring this to an end many times but I failed because of my empathy to her sadness. you forgot to point that out. This time I will try to stand firm. She is not feeling well at all, and I am worried of her staying alone. I felt trapped in some way.


Staying with someone out of a sense of pity, sympathy or emotional obligation is founded in Wrong View, attachment and Ego.
You stay with her for the reasons you mention, sure; but there is a 'payoff' - and that payoff is sex.
So your motivé is not selfless or altruistic. You stay with her because part of the relationship suits you.
Shed this aspect; and be Mindful that staying with her for the reasons you cite, is less worthy than doing the right thing.

...Just before I take back my job, I spent a whole year living with 50$ a week
,
I currently live on about £10.00/week, and make do with the kindness of good friends..
I have been seeking work for over a year, and it seems my age is against me. I will never own my own home, or be able to rent an abode privately ; sadly, I do not have what it takes to qualify for local authority homing, so I can see no immediate solution to my,'homeless' issue.
You will never hear me complain, or decry my situation save for the inconvenience it may afford my friends. So far, they have been angels on earth....

Now, in the style of the Sona Sutta....
.....
Now, I will pick up my broken teeth from the floor and ask you, in a humble way : What should I do ? Concretely ? Which steps to take now ?

Split with your current girlfriend.
Apply yourself to your job, using every tedious opportunity as a means to Meditate.
Thich Naht Hahn gives very good instructions on how to consider even the most mundane of tasks a wonderful opportunity to be Mindful....

I am working all I can on sensual pleasures, "god" is my witness. I did not mention it, but I was abstinent for 3 years, once. My choice. Waiting for "the right person"...


I have been abstinent now for 15 years and I am not ordained or a Monastic. It's the way matters have panned out and evolved. Please know: countless opportunities to indulge in sensual pleasures have presented themselves to me. I simply have never chosen to grasp them....

I asked my Vipassana teacher a while ago during a ten day retreat about this. And he told me that sensual desire would fall by itself like a rotten fruit. As long as I kept meditating diligently. Which I did. I'm still waiting, or doing something wrong, obviously.

Well, if you have sex with the girl every time you see her, you are just ripping the stitches out of the wound, aren't you?

But I keep working on it. (Feels so unnatural though...)

If you enjoy sex and wish to continue having sex, then do so. But with the right person. There's nothing wrong with sex or having sensual desires, as a layperson. But indulge Mindfully and skilfully

Should I consider leaving the lay life once and for all after paying out my debt ?

Only if that's really, really what you want to do...
What about my job ? Keep it and be grateful for it or leave it for something more fulfilling ?

Why not both? Do the first while striving for the second....
(I know the answers are mine to give, but still asking...)....Besides, I've been studying all this alone for a couple of years now, and I am completely self-taught (just did a couple of retreats). But I have no guide, no one to show me the Path. I don't think reading books is enough, practicing alone is so difficult. You see : I've been doing all this stuff for years, and a single post on this forum gave me such valuable feedback I would never had alone, you see my point ? So i welcome every advice to cultivate Dhamma more efficiently or to find someone to guide me into this so I can take the right steps and do the right moves.

Peace.


Welcome Grasshopper. :tongue:

Hopefully such interaction with many members here will help you put things into perspective.
be well.
Much Metta to you.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

Pay attention, simplify, and (Meditation instruction in a nutshell) "Mind - the Gap."
‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mehdi » Fri May 16, 2014 3:38 pm

I am utterly grateful to you and to others who helped a lot. I promise I will follow all your advice because it is what seems right to do.
It won't be easy to let her go. It is difficult to hurt people's feeling for everyone's good. Seems paradoxical, but I get the point.

Peace to you all
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Mkoll » Fri May 16, 2014 3:40 pm

Mehdi wrote:Crazy Cloud, So that was you. I knew somebody was spying on me :p
And yes, I see what you mean. It takes time, and I'm doing better as time goes by.

Mkoll,"being a light unto myself" is obviously misleading me for now, and, from what I read from you guys, I'm doing it all wrong, haha.
So that's an easy line to throw, but it's not that easy. I read, learn, try stuff, but still am so lost I guess. Before the feedback I had here I thought I was not doing that bad, as I turned, in a few years, from a very emotionally disturbed and easily offended person, to a much smoother and calm person, pursuing my ego as much as I can to unveil it, accepting impermanence, and so on. But I still have so much to learn.

You're not doing it all wrong. That's being too harsh on yourself, even if you're only joking.

And you needn't be so lost. Let your guide be the Triple Gem and your own honest discrimination and effort. Most everything else is fluff.
Peace,
James
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Peter » Fri May 16, 2014 8:58 pm

Mehdi wrote: I turned, in a few years, from a very emotionally disturbed and easily offended person, to a much smoother and calm person, pursuing my ego as much as I can to unveil it, accepting impermanence, and so on. But I still have so much to learn.


hello Medhi

You are doing fine as it seems to me

..... :buddha1: .....
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby Derek » Sat May 17, 2014 4:00 pm

Mehdi wrote:I knew I was putting myself at risk and give a very bad image of myself by writing this post, but I was honest. I sincerely want to progress.


I can see that, and I for one appreciate your honesty. It's unfortunate that some of the reactions you got here were less than helfpful.
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Re: I embraced Dhamma and turned into a Vegetable

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat May 17, 2014 4:23 pm

From his comment above it seems the OP is extremely satisfied with the responses he received. That he is so receptive to all manner of advice is a credit to him; but he seems glad of the varied input....

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



Image

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‘Absit invidia verbo’ - may ill-will be absent from the word. And mindful of that, if I don't respond, this may be why....
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