Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby pilgrim » Wed May 28, 2014 12:28 am

Viscid, i think we can have similar queries for all of the iddhis, not just levitation.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Denisa » Thu May 29, 2014 4:21 am

Thanks a bunch for sharing this beautiful story, Arka. As in the case of Buddha and Arahants, a psychic feast is something beautiful when comes as a bi-product from a wise and a humble yogi. In a time where we find spiritual figures raising more problems than the faith, the simple life style and the humility of the old monk is very inspiring.

When I was young my family toured Sri Lanka for a vacation. The tour guide took us to show old ruins in some ancient city (something related to a sacred tree), on our way back we saw a big rock which has small caves carved into it. The problem was there was no staircase or any sign (a line of holes) of attaching such a structure to it, the rock surface was flat and the caves were above the tall coconut tree tops. The guide said the caves used by monks about 2000 years ago and they get there by flying (psychic levitation). I don't know how the guide knew the flying part, but that was my first perception of there are things beyond our normal world.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sat May 31, 2014 2:34 pm

This story is inspiring, but I still doubt it, for example, is it maybe just illusion?

Nevertheless, thread starter is a bhikkhu, isn't him? And the vinaya rules doesn't allow a bhikkhu to tell lay people about higher level achievements of even other bhikkhus, does it? Not criticizing him, but it is very hard to have insider information regarding such rule
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Sat May 31, 2014 3:16 pm

He gave an account of his experience.
It seems the elderly Monk was himself unaware of this phenomenon.

Lastly, as ArkA indicates in his post,

As the Buddha mentioned what matters is the insight, not the supernatural powers.

“Buddha taught us all that needed for Nibbana, never stray away from his words,” was his final advice to me.


The levitation may not be of importance.

The message above is of absolutely critical importance.
Take from this thread what is useful and meaningful to you, and lay the rest aside.

Nobody is asking you to definitely believe anything, if you choose not to.

:namaste:
:namaste:

You will not be punished FOR your 'emotions'; you will be punished BY your 'emotions'.



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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby culaavuso » Sat May 31, 2014 5:08 pm

whynotme wrote:And the vinaya rules doesn't allow a bhikkhu to tell lay people about higher level achievements of even other bhikkhus, does it?


Pārājika 4 deals with a false claim of a bhikkhu's own attainments, and Pācittiya 8 deals with true claims of one's own attainments. The origin story to Pācittiya 8 discusses bhikkhus who made an agreement to speak of each other's attainments to circumvent the rule out of greed for donations, but the Vibhaṅga explains the rule as speaking directly of one's own attainments.

Buddhist Monastic Code (p. 254) by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:To report, says the Vibhaṅga, means to speak directly of one's own attainments, as explained under Pr 4 — i.e., to claim that the state is present in oneself or that one is present in the state. To speak indirectly of one's own attainments — e.g., "The bhikkhu who lives in this dwelling enters jhāna at will" — entails a dukkaṭa.
...
The origin story to this rule deals with bhikkhus who, as a tactic for getting almsfood in a time of scarcity, had agreed to speak of one another's superior human states to householders. This would seem to suggest that to speak of another bhikkhu's actual attainment of superior human states with such motives in mind — e.g., hoping to get a share of the increased gains he might receive — should entail a penalty too, but none of the texts mention this point, so it is not an offense.


Levitation also does not appear to be among the "superior human states" to which these rules apply. The list from the Vibhaṅga is in the link above, p. 62.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby walkart » Sat May 31, 2014 6:32 pm

I have a conviction that piti is a factor of levitation.
Once, when meditating, i felt a powerfull piti, weightless and some upward force, i didnt levitate but i clearly understood that piti is a factor of levitation.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:28 am

TheNoBSBuddhist wrote:He gave an account of his experience.
It seems the elderly Monk was himself unaware of this phenomenon.

Lastly, as ArkA indicates in his post,

As the Buddha mentioned what matters is the insight, not the supernatural powers.

“Buddha taught us all that needed for Nibbana, never stray away from his words,” was his final advice to me.


The levitation may not be of importance.

The message above is of absolutely critical importance.
Take from this thread what is useful and meaningful to you, and lay the rest aside.

Nobody is asking you to definitely believe anything, if you choose not to.

:namaste:

This is just your view

What useful and meaningful to me is analyzing that story.

Levitation if real is extremely important, something that worth billions of dollar at least. Nobody is asking me to not speak my own opinion regarding the story in the thread, and even if someone does that, I see no reason to do so.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:30 am

walkart wrote:I have a conviction that piti is a factor of levitation.
Once, when meditating, i felt a powerfull piti, weightless and some upward force, i didnt levitate but i clearly understood that piti is a factor of levitation.

That is just your feeling. From your feeling to bending reality and physics law is million of light year away.

Actually you should give up that thought, in your case, it is just illusion.

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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:32 am

culaavuso wrote:
whynotme wrote:And the vinaya rules doesn't allow a bhikkhu to tell lay people about higher level achievements of even other bhikkhus, does it?


Pārājika 4 deals with a false claim of a bhikkhu's own attainments, and Pācittiya 8 deals with true claims of one's own attainments. The origin story to Pācittiya 8 discusses bhikkhus who made an agreement to speak of each other's attainments to circumvent the rule out of greed for donations, but the Vibhaṅga explains the rule as speaking directly of one's own attainments.

Buddhist Monastic Code (p. 254) by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:To report, says the Vibhaṅga, means to speak directly of one's own attainments, as explained under Pr 4 — i.e., to claim that the state is present in oneself or that one is present in the state. To speak indirectly of one's own attainments — e.g., "The bhikkhu who lives in this dwelling enters jhāna at will" — entails a dukkaṭa.
...
The origin story to this rule deals with bhikkhus who, as a tactic for getting almsfood in a time of scarcity, had agreed to speak of one another's superior human states to householders. This would seem to suggest that to speak of another bhikkhu's actual attainment of superior human states with such motives in mind — e.g., hoping to get a share of the increased gains he might receive — should entail a penalty too, but none of the texts mention this point, so it is not an offense.


Levitation also does not appear to be among the "superior human states" to which these rules apply. The list from the Vibhaṅga is in the link above, p. 62.


Many thanks for explaining this. It seems levitation is not superior states.

Regards
Last edited by whynotme on Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:42 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:42 am

daverupa wrote:You didn't ask

Are the levitators in a meditation that's stimulating their angular gyrus?

Because it's possible they always were/are/will be, when reporting levitation, passing through walls, and other magical motions.


But at least two people, the thread starter and his friend witnessed the phenomenon at the same time. If the probability when someone has that illusion is X, let say 1/million, then the probability when two people have it at the same time is x * X which mean extremely small and unlikely (from maths)

Other explanation I have heard is that it is a projection, not actually physical body. But here raises question: if that is projection, then is it physical projection or mental projection? If it is physical projection then it is still bending the physics, i.e photon and electromagnetic field are physical, while metal projection can not be recorded by physical measurement device like camera.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby alan » Sun Jun 01, 2014 1:56 am

Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby whynotme » Sun Jun 01, 2014 2:05 am

alan wrote:Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.


Of course, thats maybe the case, but pls be fair and open minded in judging
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jun 01, 2014 3:13 am

whynotme wrote:Levitation if real is extremely important, something that worth billions of dollar at least.
And where did you pull those numbers from? Somehow I doubt that people have studied the economic benefits of levitating humans . . .

Magnetic levitation is already real and would have an enormous economic impact if the technology improves to where it can be feasibly implemented on a large scale.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby rowboat » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:35 am

alan wrote:Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.


Did Alan just accuse a venerable Bhikkhu of lying?
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It does not sodden what is open.
Therefore uncover what is covered
That the rain will not sodden it.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Denisa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 4:50 am

rowboat wrote:
alan wrote:Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.


Did Alan just accuse a venerable Bhikkhu of lying?


Yep, same question came to my mind.

Alan, do you know something that many of us here don't know to prove that ArkA (the venerable who started this thread) created a story and cheated many of us by posting it?
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Jun 01, 2014 5:17 am

Oh, dear. The question has now been put to Alan; let us see if he will answer it, but no matter what his answer is, please be polite, and feel free to use the report function or to PM the staff here if you feel a line is being crossed.

Now, back to our regularly scheduled topic of this thread.
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Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:03 am

rowboat wrote:
alan wrote:Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.


Did Alan just accuse a venerable Bhikkhu of lying?


Is the OP a Bhikku? That doesn't look like a Bhikku's name.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Mkoll » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:11 am

Mr Man wrote:
rowboat wrote:
alan wrote:Anyone make up a story, and the world is full of people who will believe it.


Did Alan just accuse a venerable Bhikkhu of lying?


Is the OP a Bhikku? That doesn't look like a Bhikku's name.

Check out the intro in his sig.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Mr Man » Sun Jun 01, 2014 7:27 am

Mkoll wrote:
Mr Man wrote:
Is the OP a Bhikku? That doesn't look like a Bhikku's name.

Check out the intro in his sig.



http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=20572

Ahh. Thanks Mkoll.
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Re: Levitation and a Simple Bhikkhu

Postby Denisa » Sun Jun 01, 2014 8:13 am

Mr Man wrote:...Is the OP a Bhikku? That doesn't look like a Bhikku's name.


Same question came to my mind when I first heard some Thai Ajans' names. But then I understood; it's different cultures. I also first thought it as Ajahn Bra
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