A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby Raga Mala » Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:14 am

vinasp wrote: On point 2. What I mean is that arahant is used to refer to those who have completed the noble eightfold path, it is also used for those who are fully enlightened ( tathagata ). It is also used for those on the higher tenfold path which leads to full enlightenment. So this conceals the two highest stages of enlightenment by making them look like only one.


I struggle to understand what you mean by "completed". SN 56.11 says that the Noble 8FP is to be "developed"--I am not familiar with a usage of that Path being "completed."

I also am not generally acquainted with any passages in the Canon that refer to anyone besides the Buddha (and, collectively, past sammasmbuddhas) as "tathagata."

If you are a suggesting a distinction in "level of enlightenment" between an Arahant and a Buddha/Tathagata/Sammasambuddha, then your ideas are as old as Nagarjuna, and you can easily refer to his numerous proofs for why the Mahayana interpretation is in accordance with the oldest teachings (or why such an accordance is irrelevant).

Is your only evidence for the "two levels of enlightenment" the 8FP v 10FP distinction? Where else in the Canon do you find evidence that there is an Awakening higher than that of the Arahant? Can you cite the passage?
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:08 pm

Hi Raga Mala,

There are many passages which use the term "tathagata" for someone other than the Buddha. Here is one :
" Bhikkhus, when the gods with Indra, with Brahma and with Pajapati seek a bhikkhu who is thus liberated in mind, they do not find [ anything of which they could say ] : " The consciousness of one thus gone is supported by this". Why is that ? One thus gone, I say, is untraceable here and now".
Middle Length Discourses of the Buddha. Bhikkhu Bodhi. MN 22. 36 page 233.

In note 266 bhikkhu Bodhi explains that "one thus gone" is tathagata in Pali. You might enjoy comparing different translations of this passage.
On what happens after the noble eightfold path is completed, the following passage is interesting :
" Half a month after being ordained venerable Vacchagotta went to the Lord, saluted (him), and sat down at one side. Said Vacchagotta :
" Bhante, I have attained what may be attained through a trainee's knowledge and learning. Let the Lord teach me dhamma beyond (this)".
" Well then, Vaccha , cultivate two further states, calm and insight. These two states will engender the comprehension of many conditions".
This is from the David W. Evans translation : Discourses of Gotama Buddha Middle Collection. Janus Publishing Company. London. 1992. page 213.

The word translated "trainee" is sekha , which is someone on the noble eightfold path, someone still developing the path factors. Once the path factors are fully developed one is no longer a sekha , the noble eightfold path is completed. What comes next is the higher stage of the asekha , about which
they do not say much.

Perhaps I should use the phrase "true path to enlightenment", because the path is described in about six different ways. The noble eightfold path is only one of these six , and is the most complicated description. Here is a much simpler one :
"Again, a bhikkhu dwells both in public and in private possessing in common with his companions in the holy life that view that is noble and emancipating, and leads one who practises in accordance with it to the complete destruction of suffering". MN 48. 6 from Bhikkhu Bodhi page 421.

On the higher path and two stages of enlightenment : The important thing which makes this clear is ones understanding of the five aggregates. Anyone who thinks that they are "actual body and mind" will not see the higher path, no matter how many passages I quote.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:28 am

Hi Vincent,
vinasp wrote:On what happens after the noble eightfold path is completed, the following passage is interesting :
" Half a month after being ordained venerable Vacchagotta went to the Lord, saluted (him), and sat down at one side. Said Vacchagotta :
" Bhante, I have attained what may be attained through a trainee's knowledge and learning. Let the Lord teach me dhamma beyond (this)".
" Well then, Vaccha , cultivate two further states, calm and insight. These two states will engender the comprehension of many conditions".

This is from the David W. Evans translation : Discourses of Gotama Buddha Middle Collection. Janus Publishing Company. London. 1992. page 213.

The word translated "trainee" is sekha , which is someone on the noble eightfold path, someone still developing the path factors. Once the path factors are fully developed one is no longer a sekha , the noble eightfold path is completed. What comes next is the higher stage of the asekha , about which
they do not say much.

Of course the standard interpretation is that a sekha is any aryiha apart from an arahant. I take that passage to mean that Ven Vacchagotta was a non-returner, and was asking for some teaching for the final stage, arahant.

In the Commentarial terminology:
http://what-buddha-said.net/library/Bud ... .htm#sekha
Sekha: a 'noble learner', a disciple in higher training, i.e. one who pursues the 3 kinds of training sikkhā, is one of those 7 kinds of Noble Disciples who have reached one of the 4 supra-mundane paths or the 3 lower fruitions see: ariya-puggala while the one possessed of the 4th fruition, or Arahatta-phala, is called 'one beyond training' asekha lit. 'no more learner'. The worldling puthujjana is called 'neither a noble learner, nor perfected in learning' n'eva-sekha-nāsekha Cf. Pug. 23-25.


By the way, can you give a reference to which Sutta you are quoting above? Is it from the MN, or somewhere else?

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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby mikenz66 » Thu Oct 08, 2009 12:52 am

OK, it's all sorted out here: http://aimwell.org/DPPN/vacchagotta.htm
It's MN73

I was a little worried about the translation given above, which sounds like Vacchagotta has no calm or insight. Here's an alternative translation:
http://awake.kiev.ua/dhamma/tipitaka/2S ... ta-e1.html
Two weeks after venerable Vacchagotta receivd the higher ordination, he approached the Blessed One, worshipped, sat on a side and said to the Blessed One. `Venerable sir, I have gained the knowledge of a trainer. May the Blessed One instruct me further,' `Then Vaccha, you should develop two things further. Develop calm and insight. Vaccha, when calm and insight is developed, it conduces to experiencing the various elements.

Here it says "develop two things further".

Bhikkhu Bodhi translates it as "develop further two things...".
And in the footnote 727 quotes the Commentary as saying that the Buddha could see that Vacchagotta had the capability of developing the six direct knowledges, so taught him serenity for the five mundane direct knowledges and insight for reaching arahantship.

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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Sat Oct 10, 2009 3:52 am

Hi everyone,

Here is my classification of persons and non-persons.

1. Siddhattha Gotama , Samma-sambodhi , tathagata , arahant.
2. Pacceka-buddha , Samma-sambodhi , tathagata , arahant.
3. Samma-sambodhi, tathagata , [ ariya-savaka ?], arahant.
4. Asekha , Non-returner , ariya-savaka , arahant.
5. Sekha , Stream-winner , ariya-savaka.
6. Puthujjana.

1. Siddhattha Gotama the historical Buddha became fully enlightened by himself, without any teachings , he then created teachings and taught for about 40 years. His degree of enlightenment is samma-sambodhi or full enlightenment , tathagata is a descriptive term meaning thus gone . Arahant means worthy one.
2. The Pacceka-buddha has become fully enlightened by himself , without any teachings. He does not teach.
3. Samma-sambodhi, here it means the full enlightenment of the noble-disciple ( ariya-savaka ) who relies on the teachings of Siddhattha Gotama.
4. Asekha , someone on the "higher path". This is the "real" non-returner.
5. Sekha , this is someone on the noble eightfold path. It is the same as a stream-winner. He is also a noble-disciple ( ariya-savaka ).
6. Puthujjana , ordinary-man , ignorant , on the wrong eightfold path.

Numbers 1, 2 and 3 are non-persons, numbers 4, 5 and 6 are persons, number 4 is a selfless person.

This may be a good time to look at MN 1. the Mulapariyaya Sutta. It speaks first of the puthujjana who sees things in terms of self. Then it talks about the learner ( sekha ) saying "let him not" see things in terms of self. Then it considers the arahant saying "he does not" see things in terms of self, adding that "it has been fully understood by him". Finally, it speaks of a tathagata saying that "he does not" see things in terms of self, and adding that "it has been fully understood to the end by a tathagata". These four states are the same as 6, 5, 4 and 3 in my classification.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby Individual » Sat Oct 10, 2009 6:40 am

vinasp wrote:I have been studying the five nikaya's for about twenty years now. I have

made major discoveries which will shock many people. I have an alternative

interpretation of the teachings. This could be the most significant

breakthrough in the last hundred years.

OMG. It's the reincarnation of Jesus!!!
The best things in life aren't things.

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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Oct 10, 2009 7:02 am

Individual wrote:
vinasp wrote:I have been studying the five nikaya's for about twenty years now. I have

made major discoveries which will shock many people. I have an alternative

interpretation of the teachings. This could be the most significant

breakthrough in the last hundred years.

OMG. It's the reincarnation of Jesus!!!


I think we have, in this thread, moved on.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Fri Oct 16, 2009 2:22 am

Hi everyone,

Here are a few more observations on the term "tathagata" and the ways in which it is used, before we move on to other topics. I do not think that we should spend much time on it as there is already a thread where Tiltbillings and others discuss the meanings of "tathagata", see :

viewtopic.php?f=23&t=218&p=1871&hilit=+tathagata#p1871

I first learnt of this from Bhikkhu Nanananda in his interesting book: Concept and Reality, in early Buddhist thought. Buddhist Publication Society. Kandy, Sri Lanka. 1986. This is a quotation from page 111 :

"The term "Tathagata" in its wider sense of the Perfect Man (uttamapuriso, paramapuriso, paramapattipatto, S.N. IV 399) is applicable to the Buddha as well as to the emancipated monk (vimuttacitto bhikkhu, M. N. I. 140, 486)".

Nanananda, a former lecturer in Pali at the University of Sri Lanka, had the advantage of reading the texts in the original Pali, while I had been reading English translations with their constant repetition of "The Tathagata", which it could be just as correct to translate, in many places, as "a tathagata".

The old PTS dictionary says, in its entry for "tathagata" page 296 :
" ...The context shows that the word is an epithet of an arahant ..."

Here are extracts from two interesting suttas :

" ... It is because he has fully awakened to these Four Noble Truths as they really are that the Tathagata is called the Arahant, the Perfectly Enlightened One. ..."

Bhikkhu Bodhi, Connected Discourses of the Buddha, page 1854.
Samyutta Nikaya. Part V Mahavagga. Chapter XII The Truths. III 23 (3) Arahants.

The next Sutta includes :

"At Savatthi. "Bhikkhus, whatever Arahants, Perfectly Enlightened Ones, in the past fully awakened to things as they really are, all fully awakened to the Four Noble Truths as they really are [434]. Whatever Arahants, Perfectly Enlightened Ones, in the future will fully awaken to things as they really are, all will fully awaken to the Four Noble Truths as they really are. Whatever Arahants, Perfectly Enlightened Ones, at present have fully awakened to things as they really are, all have fully awakened to the Four Noble Truths as they really are". III 24 (4).

Lets try translating these passages in a slightly different way :

"...It is because he has fully awakened to the four noble truths as they really are that a tathagata is called an arahant, a perfectly enlightened one ..."

"... Whatever arahants, perfectly enlightened ones, at present have fully awakened to things as they really are, all have fully awakened to the four noble truths as they really are ..."

If you accept that there is more than one tathagata (at present) then the second passage is talking about tathagata's.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Mon Oct 19, 2009 7:57 am

Hi everyone,

This is about the distinction between temporary and non-temporary liberation.
First, a passage in MN 122 translated by Bhikkhu Bodhi :

"Indeed, Ananda, it is not possible that a bhikkhu who delights in company, takes delight in company, and devotes himself to delight in company, who delights in society, takes delight in society, and rejoices in society, will ever enter upon and abide in either the deliverance of mind that is temporary and delectable or in [the deliverance of mind] that is perpetual and unshakeable
(note 1150). But it can be expected that when a bhikkhu lives alone, withdrawn from society, he will enter upon and abide in the deliverance of mind that is temporary and delectable or in [the deliverance of mind] that is perpetual and unshakeable". MN 122.4 Middle Length Discourses, page 972.

Note 1150 "The former is deliverance through the jhanas and the immaterial attainments, the latter deliverance through the supramundane paths and fruits. See also MN 29.6 and note 348."

And here is a passage in MN 29 from Bhikkhu Bodhi :

"Here, bhikkhus, some clansman goes forth out of faith from the home life into homelessness, considering : "I am a victim of birth, ageing, and death, of sorrow, lamentation, pain, grief, and despair ; I am a victim of suffering, a prey to suffering. Surely an end to this whole mass of suffering can be known". When he has gone forth thus, he acquires gain, honour, and renown. He is not pleased with that gain, honour, and renown, and his intention is not fulfilled ... When he is diligent, he achieves the attainment of virtue. He is pleased with that attainment of virtue, but his intention is not fulfilled ... When he is diligent, he achieves the attainment of concentration. He is pleased with that attainment of concentration, but his intention is not fulfilled ... When he is diligent he achieves knowledge and vision. He is pleased with that knowledge and vision, but his intention is not fulfilled. He does not, on acount of it, laud himself and disparage others. He does not become intoxicated with that knowledge and vision ; he does not grow negligent and fall into negligence. Being diligent he attains perpetual liberation. And it is impossible for that bhikkhu to fall away from that perpetual deliverance
(note 348)". [MN 29.6]

Note 348 : "This translation follows BBS and SBJ, which read asamaya-vimokkham in the preceding sentence and asamayavimuttiya in this sentence. The PTS ed., on which both Horner and Nm based their translations, is evidently mistaken in reading samaya in the two compounds and thanam instead of atthanam. MA cites the Patisambhidamagga (ii. 40 ) for a definition of asamayavimokkha ( lit., non-temporary or "perpetual" liberation) as the four paths, four fruits, and nibbana, and of samayavimokkha (temporary liberation) as the four jhanas and four formless attainments. See also MN 122.4".

There is a final passage of interest : MN 29.7

"So, this holy life, bhikkhus, does not have gain, honour, and renown for its benefit, or the attainment of virtue for its benefit, or the attainment of concentration for its benefit, or knowledge and vision for its benefit. But it is this unshakeable deliverance of mind that is the goal of this holy life, its heartwood , and its end (note 349)".

Note 349 : " Unshakeable deliverance of mind" is the fruit of arahantship (MA). Thus "perpetual liberation" - as including all four paths and fruits - has a wider range of meaning than "unshakeable deliverance of mind", which alone is declared to be the goal of the holy life.

This distinction is well understood by many today. It may have been stated explicitly in the Abhidhamma (I do not know). It seems to be mentioned only twice in the Majjhima Nikaya . I am wondering how well it was understood by Buddhist monks at the time that the Nikaya's were the current teaching. I think that it was made clear in other ways, such as the use of the term "cessation" and the knowledge of the destruction of the asava's. But, there are passages (which can be interpreted as) puthujjana monks declaring themselves to be arahants, how could they be so mistaken about their attainments ?

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Thu Oct 22, 2009 5:41 pm

Hi everyone,

This is about the wrong eightfold path, a topic which is very important but rarely mentioned. In fact, I do not recall it being discussed in any of the books on Theravada Buddhism which I read.

"Bhikkhus, ignorance is the forerunner in the entry upon unwholesome states, with shamelessness and fearlessness of wrongdoing following along. For an unwise person immersed in ignorance, wrong view springs up. For one of wrong view, wrong intention springs up. For one of wrong intention, wrong speech springs up. For one of wrong speech, wrong action springs up. For one of wrong action, wrong livelihood springs up. For one of wrong livelihood, wrong effort springs up. For one of wrong effort, wrong mindfulness springs up. For one of wrong mindfulness, wrong concentration springs up.
Bhikkhus, true knowledge is the forerunner in the entry upon wholesome states, with a sense of shame and fear of wrongdoing following along. For a wise person who has arrived at true knowledge, right view springs up. For one of right view, right intention springs up. For one of right intention, right speech springs up. For one of right speech, right action springs up. For one of right action, right livelihood springs up. For one of right livelihood, right effort springs up. For one of right effort, right mindfulness springs up. For one of right mindfulness, right concentration springs up."

Bhikkhu Bodhi : Connected Discourses, page 1523.
Samyutta Nikaya, part V, Mahavagga, Chapter I, 45 Maggasamyutta I Ignorance, 1 (1) Ignorance.

This is important because most monks were ignorant puthujjhanas, and were on this wrong eightfold path. Only ariya savakas were on the noble eightfold path. There seems to be a widespread misconception today, that anyone who adopts certain views and engages in certain practices is automatically on the noble eightfold path. This is not true. The wrong path leads nowhere.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Mon Oct 26, 2009 7:51 am

Hi everyone,

More on the wrong eightfold path, from The Connected Discourses.

"At Savatthi. Bhikkhus, I will teach you the wrong way and the right way. Listen to that ... And what, bhikkhus, is the wrong way ? It is wrong view ... wrong concentration. This is called the wrong way. And what, bhikkhus, is the right way ? It is right view .... right concentration. This is called the right way". 23 (3) The Way (1). page 1535.

" At Savatthi. Bhikkhus, whether for a layperson or one gone forth, I do not praise the wrong way. Whether it is a layperson or one gone forth who is practising wrongly, because of undertaking the wrong way of practice he does not attain the method, the Dhamma that is wholesome. And what, bhikkhus, is the wrong way ? It is : wrong view .... wrong concentration". 24 (4) The Way (2) page 1535-6.

"At Savatthi. Bhikkhus, I will teach you the inferior person and the superior person. Listen to that ... And what, bhikkhus, is the inferior person ? Here someone is of wrong view, wrong intention ... wrong concentration. This is called the inferior person". ( superior person has right view etc.) 25 (5) The inferior person (1) page 1536.

26 (6) goes further. It speaks of the inferior person and the one who is worse than the inferior person. The inferior person has wrong view .... wrong concentration. The one who is worse has these eight plus wrong knowledge and wrong liberation. So we have here a tenfold wrong path which is contrasted with the tenfold right path. Wrong knowledge and wrong liberation represent a puthujjana monk who deludes himself that he is enlightened.(They make the declaration just like real arahants ).

31 (1) "Bhikkhus, I will teach you wrong practice and right practice". You can no doubt guess what is said.

" Bhikkhus, I do not see even one other thing by means of which the unarisen noble eightfold path arises and the arisen noble eightfold path goes to fulfilment so effectively as by this : good friendship". 77 (1) Good Friend.

So it would seem that one is automatically on the wrong path unless one can cause the noble eightfold path to arise. I wonder how one does that ?

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby nowheat » Wed Oct 28, 2009 10:40 am

I have a great deal of respect for the amount of time and consideration you've put into reading suttas and working up evidence for your theory which, I hope I understand correctly (and summarizing), is that there is a secret teaching embedded in the Pali canon about a higher path. However, it is clear to me that what you are seeing is not a secret teaching at all, though I can understand how it could look that way.

The thing is, you're reading translations. All we have are translations. Nothing we have is a transcript word-for-word. When you have people writing down "What the Buddha said" or even memorizing it in their time, they are giving us their understanding of what the Buddha said. What's conveyed is only as good as their understanding. I would expect that almost every time there was a change made, it was made in the best interests of better conveying what the translators believed to be the Buddha's teaching.

However, that said, a great deal of what the Buddha taught was deeply intertwined with the times he lived in and times change -- fast. The context in which he said various things has been lost or misunderstood or ignored; the background setting seems to have been fairly faithfully carried forward but usually dismissed as irrelevant. (I am deeply grateful for the setting being retained even when dismissed, as I can see that it will help us sort out what was actually said.)

The Buddha said he taught "with an open hand" not "a teacher's hand" (the “teacher's hand” was common among Brahmins and hid the higher teachings given only to the best students), so it is not likely that the Buddha put secret teachings in what you're reading. What is far more likely is that what the Buddha taught quite clearly and explicitly was that there is a higher path to liberation and that is *his* path. There is a tainted path to liberation and that is the path of regular moral people whose path puts them on higher ground than that of rogues and fools, but is still not as good as the path the Buddha offered. This tainted path has been misinterpreted from very early times as part of the path the Buddha taught and is now taught widely as mainstream Buddhism. So you are in a sense right that there were two levels of paths that the Buddha talked about. There was whatever religion the common folk practiced, which, being a tolerant fellow, he did not denigrate as long as the effort did result in someone leading a good life of consideration for others; and there was the untainted right view, which was his teaching. It's just that his discussion of these has been so muddied by translations that it seems like there's a hidden message in there, but the Buddha didn't try to hide it, it's just been obscured.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:07 am

Hi nowheat,

On the higher path and whether it was secret, I have changed my view slightly. I thought that there was no explicit talk about this higher path, but I was wrong. It is stated very clearly in M 117 where it is called the "noble path" and is said to be "supramundane and free of asavas".
Also I agree with you that I am not yet seeing the teachings clearly because of confusion due to poor translations.
Are you reading the Nikaya's in Pali ?

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby PeterB » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:15 am

Vinasp, can I ask an unloaded question ?
What is your main meditation practice ?

:anjali:
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby nowheat » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:16 am

vinasp wrote:Hi nowheat,

On the higher path and whether it was secret, I have changed my view slightly. I thought that there was no explicit talk about this higher path, but I was wrong. It is stated very clearly in M 117 where it is called the "noble path" and is said to be "supramundane and free of asavas".
Also I agree with you that I am not yet seeing the teachings clearly because of confusion due to poor translations.
Are you reading the Nikaya's in Pali ?

Best wishes, Vincent.

I haven't yet sat down and learned Pali formally so I guess I have to say no.
Last edited by nowheat on Fri Oct 30, 2009 12:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:30 am

Hi PeterB,

I think I have already said that I do not practice any meditation. I think that understanding the teachings is the way. Of course, one needs to see into the workings of ones own mind as well. Insight is unpredictable. I am happy for others to do whatever they find helpful.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby PeterB » Wed Oct 28, 2009 11:47 am

So to be clear Vinasp in your view an intellectual understanding of translations of the Pali Canon, or an understanding your minds reactions to those translations, is sufficient in itself to bring you to Enlightenment ?
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby vinasp » Thu Oct 29, 2009 10:54 am

Hi everyone,

A bit more on the wrong path and what it leads to. What does it lead to ? Nothing in most cases, but sometimes a puthujjana monk has some strange experience and thinks that he has become enlightened.

Now on that occasion a number of bhikkhus had declared final knowledge in the presence of the Blessed One thus : "We understand : Birth is destroyed, the holy life has been lived, what had to be done has been done, there is no more coming to any state of being."
( Sunakkhatta hears about this and goes to the Blessed One )
Sunakkhatta says : "I have heard, venerable sir, that a number of bhikkhus have declared final knowledge in the presence of the Blessed One. Did they do so rightly or are there some bhikkhus here who declare final knowledge because they overestimate themselves?"
"When those bhikkhus, Sunakkhatta, declared final knowledge in my presence, there were some bhikkhus who declared final knowledge rightly and there were some who declared final knowledge because they overestimated themselves". MN 105 . Middle Length Discourses, Bhikkhu Bodhi.

This passage does not say that the monks were still puthujjanas, but other passages suggest that this did occur. How else are we to understand the extra two limbs of the wrong eightfold path - wrong knowledge and wrong liberation ? This must have made things rather difficult for novice monks, if half of those claiming to be arahants where only deluded puthujjanas.
But surely, you say, all such claims would be tested and officially approved.
Were they ? There are sutta's which show monks being questioned, but I do not recall one in which a monks claim is explicitly denied.

Best wishes, Vincent.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby PeterB » Fri Oct 30, 2009 1:49 pm

PeterB wrote:So to be clear Vinasp in your view an intellectual understanding of translations of the Pali Canon, or an understanding your minds reactions to those translations, is sufficient in itself to bring you to Enlightenment ?



Bump.
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Re: A new interpretation of the Pali Canon

Postby nowheat » Sun Nov 01, 2009 12:20 pm

PeterB wrote:
PeterB wrote:So to be clear Vinasp in your view an intellectual understanding of translations of the Pali Canon, or an understanding your minds reactions to those translations, is sufficient in itself to bring you to Enlightenment ?



Bump.

Why are we discussing Vinasp's personal practice and understanding of enlightenment rather than his theory?

:namaste:
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