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"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals - Page 9 - Dhamma Wheel

"The Broken Buddha" by Ven.Dhammika and other scandals

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Jhana4
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 12:15 pm

I think you are right, I think different cultures should avoid judging each other. It is a waste of time. I also think you are right that a big part of the value of the book is showing Westerners a side of Asian Buddhism they aren't aware of so they can avoid going to the same place and make something new/better in terms of what western Buddhism will become.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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pilgrim
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby pilgrim » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:00 pm

TBB puts into words what many are already aware of. In this context it is useful to accurately identify the problems . Denying the problems won't make them go away.

Jhana4
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:52 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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tiltbillings
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby tiltbillings » Tue Nov 29, 2011 3:58 pm


Jhana4
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Jhana4 » Tue Nov 29, 2011 4:05 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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pilgrim
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby pilgrim » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:21 am


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pilgrim
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby pilgrim » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:23 am


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manas
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby manas » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:30 am

(I deleted what I had written here. Whenever I write something critical of others, even when it's seems quite true (from my pov), I often later on feel like it would have been better to have left it unsaid. Sorry folks - another terminated post. I should change my nick to 'arnie'.)

'how often we regret saying too much, and how seldom too little.'

:anjali:
Last edited by manas on Fri Dec 02, 2011 7:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

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retrofuturist
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby retrofuturist » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:35 am

Greetings,

Which then leads us back nicely to the issues discussed recently in..

Richard Gombrich - Comfort or Challenge?
viewtopic.php?f=14&t=10426

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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tiltbillings
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby tiltbillings » Wed Nov 30, 2011 3:43 am


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 30, 2011 1:05 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Raksha » Wed Nov 07, 2012 2:11 pm

Sorry to recycle this ancient thread but I've only just read this book, and it made a big impression on me. I've discussed it with my old Professor who is an expert on this subject and he told me to read Justin McDaniels books on monastic education for a more optimistic outlook. We both agreed that Ven. Dhammika is clueless on the role of magic and the supernatural in Buddhism, and my old Professor also thought that he was rather naive and optimistic in his expectations. Even so all his criticisms are valid. Interestingly, these are criticisms that any educated Westerner could make. Partly this is due to our Christian background which emphasizes humility and service, and partly due to our exposure to other varieties of Buddhism, but mainly it is due to our scientific culture. Of course it doesn't go all one way, in respect of the supernatural we Westerners are infantile in our understanding. It may be that centuries of science and logic has gifted up with a sharper mindset but distanced us from these very subtle things. What is clear is that Western monks have an extremely important role to play in the future because if it somehow possible to apply the insights of our modern civilisation to the Dhamma, without sacrificing the magical, then the results would be truly wonderful.

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Sambojjhanga
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby Sambojjhanga » Wed Nov 07, 2012 5:51 pm

I read the book awhile back myself. I'm actually surprised that anyone is actually surprised by any of this. Afterall, the Buddha himself spoke of such things.

You know what this is:

It's called SAMSARA!

There is NO organization on Earth, religious or otherwise, that isn't infected by this. Industry, the military, education, etc. As for "unserious" monks, that was one of the main reasons Ajaan Mun and the entire Thai Forest tradition STARTED! Read some of the biographies of the serious Thai Forest monks such as Maha Boowa, Ajaan Lee, Ajaan Fuang, Ajaan Chah, etc., etc. and pretty much to a man, they all stated that their first experiences in the Monastery's were with less-than-serious monks and that they had to seek out serious teachers of the Dhamma.

All institutions suffer from this. Lots of people get caught up in power, prestige and status. As has already been stated, look at the super-wealthy Christian preachers. Oh yeah, they are REALLY emulating Jesus...NOT! This doesn't mean that there aren't good and serious Christians, because there are. I was raised Catholic and actually met some very fine priests and nuns...I also met some real stinkers.

As far as scandals, I think that the Mahayana Tibetan's have had more than their share. Again, there are some wonderful Tibetan teachers...there are also some really serious sexual perverts and drunks in these groups ("crazy wisdom" be damned.) We cannot judge an entire group of people or religious teachings based on the misdeeds of a few.

Having said all this, there is ONE person that we can work on and one person ONLY: Ourselves. Whenever I read stories such as these, I just want to redouble my effort to get out of Samsara.

Oh, and one final thing. Ven. Dhammika is wrong about: the lack of anomalous phenomena in spiritual practices. Just because HE hasn't personally experienced them doesn't mean they don't occur. I've experienced them personally, I KNOW they are real.

:anjali:
The flavor of the dhamma exceeds all other flavors

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mikenz66
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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Wed Nov 07, 2012 6:41 pm


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Re: "The Broken Buddha" by Ven. S. Dhammika

Postby mikenz66 » Sun Nov 11, 2012 6:35 pm


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BlackBird
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The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Tue Jun 18, 2013 10:52 am

Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:33 pm, edited 2 times in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

alan
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby alan » Tue Jun 18, 2013 2:27 pm

Thanks BlackBird. Seems to me you can't go wrong by staying focused on the Suttas.

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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:14 am

Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -

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gavesako
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby gavesako » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:19 am

There is a history to this book. I don't know the details but I heard from some monks in Sri Lanka that the author later asked for forgiveness and obviously regretted expressing such negatively biased views in the book. One could probably find fault with any established tradition along similar lines.
Bhikkhu Gavesako
Kiṃkusalagavesī anuttaraṃ santivarapadaṃ pariyesamāno... (MN 26)

- Theravada texts
- Translations and history of Pali texts
- Sutta translations

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BlackBird
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Re: The Nude Monk's Burning Robes

Postby BlackBird » Wed Jun 19, 2013 10:28 am

Last edited by BlackBird on Wed Jun 19, 2013 1:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"For a disciple who has conviction in the Teacher's message & lives to penetrate it, what accords with the Dhamma is this:
'The Blessed One is the Teacher, I am a disciple. He is the one who knows, not I." -


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