clw_uk wrote:There is another passage that i have come accross that does seem to contradict the 3 lives interpretation despite being cited by bhikkhu bodhi as evidence of it in his introduction to the Book of Causation, its in the SN - Book of Causation - 19.
"Bhikkhus, for the wise mand, hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, this body originated. For the wise man that ignorance has been abandoned and that craving has been utterly destroyed. For what reason? Because the wise man has lived the holy life for the complete destruction of suffering. Therefore, with the breakup of the body, the wise man does not fare on to body. Not faring onto body, he is freed from birth, aging, and death; freed from sorrow, lamentation, pain, displeasure, and dispair, freed from suffering, I say"
That is my interpretation anyway
I don't see any contradictions here.
First of all it states "Bhikkhus, for the wise man, hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving, this body originated."
Which implies it is ignorance from a previous life that lead to the current physical birth (Body originated).
"For the wise man that ignorance has been abandoned and that craving has been utterly destroyed."
So, this person who has a body (originally born due to ignorance) has now destroyed craving. So they will not take any future rebirths when they die.
" Therefore, with the breakup of the body, the wise man does not fare on to body"
Or TB's translation "Therefore, at the break-up of the body, he is not headed for a [new] body."
Now a few important things to note here, at first glance it seems to say that this is discussing physical death but i do not believe that is the intent, first of all it says the breakup of the "body" and not the breakup of the aggregates which i feel would have been used if it meant literal death.
Why wouldn't breakup of the body mean physical death? What else could it possibly mean?
Second of all this states that when the body breaks up one is free, enlightened.
Now if you take break up of the body to mean literal death then it seems you assert that while still living there will still be dukkha. However this is contrary to the buddhas promise that one can be liberated from all dukkha right now, in this very moment and not have to wait for death. Therefor you can only interpret this not as literal death of the "body".
No, one is enlightened before death, but still inhabits a body due to prior ignorance. There will be things like physical pain, but no suffering. Since that ignorance has been destroyed, this person will not inhabit a new body after death.
-M