Illusion and Emptiness

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Prasadachitta
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Re: Illusion and Emptiness

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Jan 11, 2010 6:25 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
gabrielbranbury wrote:Hi Tilt,

You And I do not disagree. Because I have a certain amount of reverence for and confidence in the Sangha generally, I tend to take it for granted that the teachings of Abhidhamma are for the purpose of diminishing and ending suffering and not for establishing philosophical arguments. This conclusion does not arise out of intense study even though I do enjoy a good Dhamma book from time to time. Gabe
not for establishing philosophical arguments On the other hand it is worthwhile having some idea of what the teachings are actually saying, and it is worthwhile to respond to a gross misrepresentation of the Theravada idea of dhammas we are seeing in 5heap's msgs. The Mahayana/Madhyamaka critique of the ideas of dharmas as being ultimate partless particles with findable true existence does not really address what is found in the Theravadin texts.

The various Tibetan scholastic tenet systems developed by the various schools of Tibetan Buddhism serves a didactic purpose for those schools, but it is not a solid basis for understanding any extinct or extant school of Buddhism outside the one putting forth the tenet sustem.



Hi Tilt,

Again I agree with your statements. I am not a fan of that particular didactic paradigm even though it appears to me to have been quite effective for many.

Metta

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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catmoon
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Re: Illusion and Emptiness

Postby catmoon » Thu Jan 14, 2010 9:02 pm

not sure who said this but... wrote: The Mahayana/Madhyamaka critique of the ideas of dharmas as being ultimate partless particles with findable true existence does not really address what is found in the Theravadin texts.



Is Shantideva a valid Theravadin text? I may be reading him wrong, but he seems to shred the bolded concepts pretty thoroughly.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Illusion and Emptiness

Postby Cittasanto » Thu Jan 14, 2010 10:06 pm

catmoon wrote:
not sure who said this but... wrote: The Mahayana/Madhyamaka critique of the ideas of dharmas as being ultimate partless particles with findable true existence does not really address what is found in the Theravadin texts.



Is Shantideva a valid Theravadin text? I may be reading him wrong, but he seems to shred the bolded concepts pretty thoroughly.


Shantideva is a person, not a text so no :tongue:

but it would still be no, I believe he was mahasangha not Theravadin.
Blog, Suttas, Aj Chah, Facebook.

He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.
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tiltbillings
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Re: Illusion and Emptiness

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Jan 14, 2010 11:59 pm

Manapa wrote:
catmoon wrote:
not sure who said this but... wrote: The Mahayana/Madhyamaka critique of the ideas of dharmas as being ultimate partless particles with findable true existence does not really address what is found in the Theravadin texts.



Is Shantideva a valid Theravadin text? I may be reading him wrong, but he seems to shred the bolded concepts pretty thoroughly.


Shantideva is a person, not a text so no :tongue:

but it would still be no, I believe he was mahasangha not Theravadin.

Shantideva was a Madhyamika and one of the first great systematizers of the Mahayana.

but he seems to shred the bolded concepts pretty thoroughly.
Sure, however, he is not addressing the Theravada.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

      >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
      -- Proverbs 26:12


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