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Rebirth once again - Dhamma Wheel

Rebirth once again

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
richierich
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:32 am

Rebirth once again

Postby richierich » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:24 am

I have been browsing this forum and decided to join. I wanted to share my understanding of rebirth and see if anyone who opposes it can counter this. Alright I think we can all agree that consciousness or what we may call the mindstream, like all things, is dependently arisen and impermanent. Being so, it does not have a fixed being/identity/"thingness." It is not truly existent. This is part of emptiness. Now, there being no thing (existence) there to begin with, how could there be the absence of a thing, non existence? Just so, there being no consciousness present as a true existent thing to begin with, how could there possibly be absence of that thing? Now it is this dependently arisen and impermanent consciousness itself (not "self" but you know what I mean) that is not existent and thus cannot be non existent. So one can say that dependently arisen and impermanent phenomena themselves are emptiness.

There is no emptiness apart from phenomena. Thus emptiness is not existence (what we may call eternalism) and is not non existence (nihilism or annihilationism). To claim that consciousness ended at death would be to believe that there was something substantial there that could end in the first place. Therefore, the very view that, because apart from changing phenomena there is no emptiness the CONTINUITY of this mindstream as dependently arisen and always changing IS emptiness, IS itself the middle way - it avoids existence and non existence, nothingness, annhiliation, etc. If one believes that the stream of mind can end after death, I believe that one does not yet have right view of emptiness. I would in fact say that correct understanding of emptiness includes understanding rebirth as literal. I would very much like to hear refutations from rebirth deniers on this topic.

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retrofuturist
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Re: Rebirth once again

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 03, 2010 10:45 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Paññāsikhara
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Re: Rebirth once again

Postby Paññāsikhara » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:18 pm

My recently moved Blog, containing some of my writings on the Buddha Dhamma, as well as a number of translations from classical Buddhist texts and modern authors, liturgy, etc.: .

richierich
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Joined: Sun Jan 03, 2010 7:32 am

Re: Rebirth once again

Postby richierich » Sun Jan 03, 2010 12:25 pm


Calahand
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Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 4:15 pm

Re: Rebirth once again

Postby Calahand » Sun Jan 03, 2010 1:30 pm

Last edited by Calahand on Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Cittasanto
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Re: Rebirth once again

Postby Cittasanto » Sun Jan 03, 2010 2:30 pm

welcome to Dhamma Wheel


He who knows only his own side of the case knows little of that. His reasons may be good, and no one may have been able to refute them.
But if he is equally unable to refute the reasons on the opposite side, if he does not so much as know what they are, he has no ground for preferring either opinion …
...
He must be able to hear them from persons who actually believe them … he must know them in their most plausible and persuasive form.

5heaps
Posts: 334
Joined: Wed Dec 16, 2009 12:19 am

Re: Rebirth once again

Postby 5heaps » Sun Jan 03, 2010 3:25 pm

A Japanese man has been arrested on suspicion of writing a computer virus that destroys and replaces files on a victim PC with manga images of squid, octopuses and sea urchins. Masato Nakatsuji, 27, of Izumisano, Osaka Prefecture, was quoted as telling police: "I wanted to see how much my computer programming skills had improved since the last time I was arrested."

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bodom
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Location: San Antonio, Texas

Re: Rebirth once again

Postby bodom » Sun Jan 03, 2010 4:06 pm

Sounds like Mahayana interpretation of emptiness ie. Heart sutra, form is emptiness emptiness is form.

:anjali:
To study is to know the texts,
To practice is to know your defilements,
To attain the goal is to know and let go.

- Ajahn Lee Dhammadharo


With mindfulness immersed in the body
well established, restrained
with regard to the six media of contact,
always centered, the monk
can know Unbinding for himself.

- Ud 3.5


https://www.dhammatalks.org/index.html
http://www.ajahnchah.org/


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