Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Yes, all the time
14
20%
Sometimes, in passing
30
43%
No, I only read the Tipitaka
26
37%
 
Total votes : 70

Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nikaya35 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 5:54 am

Forgive my ignorance but I would like to know if the Mahayana Buddhists have an equivalent of the Sutta Pitaka in their collection of scriptures.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Kenshou » Tue Dec 14, 2010 6:06 am

I believe for many that would be the Agamas which are more or less the same collection of texts as most of the Pali Sutta Pitaka. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C4%80gama_(Buddhism)
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:46 am

The issue isnt the commonalities.....its the later lurches into fantasy fiction. Composed many hundred years later.
Its like taking an understanding of Christianity from the Book Of Mormon.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:09 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:The issue isnt the commonalities.....its the later lurches into fantasy fiction.

So for you the common Nāthadeva/Metteyya stuff is legit but any other devas with bodhisattva or buddha qualities abiding in other world systems is absolutely impossible and therefore illegitimate?
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:27 pm

Ñāṇa wrote:
Sanghamitta wrote:The issue isnt the commonalities.....its the later lurches into fantasy fiction.

So for you the common Nāthadeva/Metteyya stuff is legit but any other devas with bodhisattva or buddha qualities abiding in other world systems is absolutely impossible and therefore illegitimate?

Not impossible. Just irrelevant. Its gilding the lily. Its a literary device which adds nothing to the basic Pali Canon narrative and instead muddies the waters.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:34 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Its a literary device

And how do you know that its merely a literary device?
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:46 pm

Nana why do you care what I think....? :smile:
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:54 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:Nana why do you care what I think....?

Just wondering why you would want to categorically dismiss everything not found in a Pāḷi text as fictions with no more soteriological utility than The Lord Of The Rings?
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 2:57 pm

Absolutely I would dismiss everything not found it the Pali Canon.. And the only difference between myself and most other Theravadins is that I am not diplomatic about it on the record. Usually its just said soto voce when mahayanists are around.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Tue Dec 14, 2010 3:30 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:And the only difference between myself and most other Theravadins is that I am not diplomatic about it on the record.

I don't see it as having anything to do with diplomacy. Denigrating other expressions of Buddhist faith as being no more soteriologically meaningful than popular fiction is arrogant and self-serving. I don't detect any skillfulness in belittling others as being misguided unfortunates unwilling or unable to rise to your superior level. It's just another version of the hīnayāna polemic: Everyone who doesn't see it your way is by default employing a poor, deficient vehicle.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Taco » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:14 pm

"And how are there four kinds of verbal conduct not in accordance with the Dhamma, unrighteous conduct?

Here someone speaks falsehood: when summoned to a court or to a meeting, or to his relatives' presence, or to his guild, or to the royal family's presence, and questioned as a witness thus, 'So, good man, tell what you know,' then, not knowing, he says 'I know,' or knowing, he says 'I do not know,' not seeing, he says 'I see,' or seeing, he says 'I do not see'; in full awareness he speaks falsehood for his own ends or for another's ends or for some trifling worldly end.

He speaks maliciously: he is a repeater elsewhere of what is heard here for the purpose of causing division from these, or he is a repeater to these of what is heard elsewhere for the purpose of causing division from those, and he is thus a divider of the united, a creator of divisions, who enjoys discord, rejoices in discord, delights in discord, he is a speaker of words that create discord.

He speaks harshly: he utters such words as are rough, hard, hurtful to others, censorious of others, bordering on anger and unconducive to concentration.

He is a gossip: as one who tells that which is unseasonable, that which is not fact, that which is not good, that which is not the Dhamma, that which is not the Discipline, and he speaks out of season speech not worth recording, which is unreasoned, indefinite, and unconnected with good. That is how there are four kinds of verbal conduct not in accordance with the Dhamma, unrighteous conduct."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .nymo.html
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nikaya35 » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:34 pm

I don't understand the hot arguing here by some members . I personally don't read the Mahayana sutras and I don't care . Buddhists should not cling to views , to the Pali Canon and should not cling even to buddhism . Clinging is very dangerous and can make Buddhists to behave in a wrong way . Militant buddhists in Sr Lanka for example are caused by clinging . The atrocities of Zen Buddhists in the second world war are caused by clinging . The atrocities of all religions and atheists too are caused by clinging.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 8:39 pm

This idea that "clinging" is somehow the antichrist of Buddhism should be treated with great care. For a start very few people actually clarify what they mean by clinging as though it is self explanatory. It isnt.
Some of the most obvious clinging I see is from people who cling to the idea that not clinging is the raison d'etre of Buddhadhamma. It isnt,
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby kirk5a » Tue Dec 14, 2010 9:15 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:This idea that "clinging" is somehow the antichrist of Buddhism should be treated with great care. For a start very few people actually clarify what they mean by clinging as though it is self explanatory. It isnt.
Some of the most obvious clinging I see is from people who cling to the idea that not clinging is the raison d'etre of Buddhadhamma. It isnt,

"The holy life is lived under the Blessed One, my friend, for the sake of total Unbinding through lack of clinging."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:08 pm

We can all quote selected verses out of context to show that our particular concern is most central. The current preoccupation of the online Buddhist community is clinging. That needs to be seen in context and balanced with other factors. there is also the issue of translation. "Clinging" isnt very good.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby kirk5a » Tue Dec 14, 2010 10:55 pm

Anyone can go read the context there and see if changes the understanding. Or search for "released through not clinging" at acccesstoinsight and see what comes up, and read that context.

Like what other factors? What do you propose as an alternate translation?
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Dec 15, 2010 9:56 am

I seldom suggest an alternative translation to any term. Modern european languages differ radically in their purpose to the languages of the Indian Subcontinent in regard to matters of "the spirit ". ( there you go )...I think it behoves us to internalise a few key concepts...like tanha and lobha for example.
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby andre9999 » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:33 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:We can all quote selected verses out of context to show that our particular concern is most central. The current preoccupation of the online Buddhist community is clinging. That needs to be seen in context and balanced with other factors. there is also the issue of translation. "Clinging" isnt very good.


You lost me here. How do you view the second noble truth?
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Sanghamitta » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:41 pm

That the cause of Dukkha is Tanha.
Last edited by Sanghamitta on Wed Dec 15, 2010 1:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Wed Dec 15, 2010 12:50 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:That the caose of Dukkha is Tanha.


And in dependence on tanha arises upadana, which is usually translated as grasping or clinging.

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