Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Yes, all the time
14
20%
Sometimes, in passing
30
43%
No, I only read the Tipitaka
26
37%
 
Total votes: 70

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:43 am

alan wrote:A comprehensive reading will reveal fundamental differences.
But I'm glad to hear you are taking the time to read them, m0rl0ck!


I also like to read zen stuff, like ajahn chah.
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

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tiltbillings
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:45 am

m0rl0ck wrote:I also like to read zen stuff, like ajahn chah.
?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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bodom
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 3:57 am

If one wasn't aware that Ajahn Chah was a Theravadin Buddhist monk, one could most definitely mistake him for one of the old Zen masters.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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m0rl0ck
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby m0rl0ck » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:01 am

bodom wrote:If one wasn't aware that Ajahn Chah was a Theravadin Buddhist monk, one could most definitely mistake him for one of the old Zen masters.

:anjali:


Yes :)
"When you meditate, don't send your mind outside. Don't fasten onto any knowledge at all. Whatever knowledge you've gained from books or teachers, don't bring it in to complicate things. Cut away all preoccupations, and then as you meditate let all your knowledge come from what's going on in the mind. When the mind is quiet, you'll know it for yourself. But you have to keep meditating a lot. When the time comes for things to develop, they'll develop on their own. Whatever you know, have it come from your own mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html

alan
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby alan » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:02 am

Ajahn Chah, that great Zen master, is best known for his most interesting Koan: If a teacher lives in the forest and no one knows about it, did he really ever teach?
Brilliant stuff.

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bodom
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:08 am

Ajahn Chah was famous for his Koan like teachings.

Have you ever seen flowing water?... Have you ever seen still water?... If your mind is peaceful it will be just like still, flowing water. Have you ever seen still, flowing water? There! You've only ever seen flowing water and still water, haven't you? But you've never seen still, flowing water. Right there, right where your thinking cannot take you, even though it's peaceful you can develop wisdom. Your mind will be like flowing water, and yet it's still. It's almost as if it were still, and yet it's flowing. So I call it ''still, flowing water.'' Wisdom can arise here.


http://www.ajahnchah.org/book/Still_Flowing_Water1.php

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:10 am

More Ajahn Chah Koans:

I've already spoken of this, but some of you may be interested to hear it again: if you practice consistently and consider things thoroughly, you will eventually reach this point . . . At first you hurry to go forward, hurry to come back, and hurry to stop. You continue to practice like this until you reach the point where it seems that going forward is not it, coming back is not it, and stopping is not it either! It's finished. This is the finish. Don't expect anything more than this, it finishes right here. Khinasavo- one who is completed. He doesn't go forward, doesn't retreat and doesn't stop. There's no stopping, no going forward and no coming back. It's finished. Consider this, realize it clearly in your own mind. Right there you will find that there is really nothing at all.


http://www.purifymind.com/AjahnChah11.htm

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:12 am

A visiting Zen student asked Ajahn Chah, "How old are you? Do you live here all year round?" "I live nowhere," he replied. "There is no place you can find me. I have no age. To have age, you must exist, and to think you exist is already a problem. Don't make problems; then the world has none either. Don't make a self. There's nothing more to say."


http://www.hsuyun.org/chan/en/features/ ... nchah.html

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby alan » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:25 am

Thanks bodom. The first two statements were metaphors. The last one was an irritated response to a dumb question. I'd do the same.
No Koans there. Similar in appearance but different in substance.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:32 am

alan wrote:Thanks bodom. The first two statements were metaphors. The last one was an irritated response to a dumb question. I'd do the same.
No Koans there. Similar in appearance but different in substance.


In case you missed it the first time around:

bodom wrote

Ajahn Chah was famous for his Koan "like" teachings.


:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

alan
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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby alan » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:39 am

Koan-like is one thing. Koan is another. Since this thread seems to be about differences between the sects, I'd say it is a valid to point that out.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby bodom » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:46 am

Since this thread seems to be about differences between the sects,


Is it? I thought it was about Theravadin practitioners who also read Mahayana sutras? Perhaps your looking for this thread:

Mahayana better than Theravada?

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=4107&start=0

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby kirk5a » Sat Dec 11, 2010 4:55 am

Ajahn Chah took one look at me, saw that I'd been in a deep meditation, and he said, "Brahmavamso, Why?"

I was completely surprised and confused, and replied, "I don't know".

Afterwards he said, "If anyone ever asks you that question again, the correct answer is, 'There is nothing'".

"Do you understand?" Ajahn Chah asked me.

"Yes," I said.

"No you don't," he replied.

http://www.what-buddha-taught.net/Books ... Things.htm
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby alan » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:11 am

My patience for this kind is stuff is about at an end.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:22 am

alan wrote:I've seen that video before and on a second look it is still unsatisfying. Maybe if I ever approach Ajahn Brahm's level I'll understand, but my unenlightened mind sees vast differences between the sects. Differences that are not only impossible to ignore but that really matter in terms of practice.

Hi Alan & all,

The six perfections taught in the bodhisattvayāna are all contained in the standard threefold higher training (i.e. adhiśīlaśikṣā, adhicittaśikṣā, adhiprajñāśikṣā). The only difference is that bodhisattvas have a different goal than śrāvakas. And to this end a bodhisattva must be thoroughly knowledgeable of both the śrāvakayāna and the bodhisattvayāna. This is the knowledge of all paths (mārgākārajñatā).

alan wrote:A comprehensive reading will reveal fundamental differences.

A comprehensive reading will also reveal fundamental commonalities in terms of practice. For example:


alan wrote:Since this thread seems to be about differences between the sects, I'd say it is a valid to point that out.

The Mahāyāna isn't a sect. It's a vehicle for those to aspire to awaken to buddhahood. Thus there are Theravāda bodhisattvas and Mūlasarvāstivāda bodhisattvas and Dharmaguptaka bodhisattvas.

All the best,

Geoff

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:45 am

Ñāṇa wrote:The six perfections taught in the bodhisattvayāna . . . The Mahāyāna isn't a sect. It's a vehicle for those to aspire to awaken to buddhahood. Thus there are Theravāda bodhisattvas and Mūlasarvāstivāda bodhisattvas and Dharmaguptaka bodhisattvas.
And it probably should go without saying, but probably should be said, the above is a Mahayana framework that has no real bearing upon the Theravada.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Sat Dec 11, 2010 5:59 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Ñāṇa wrote:The six perfections taught in the bodhisattvayāna . . . The Mahāyāna isn't a sect. It's a vehicle for those to aspire to awaken to buddhahood. Thus there are Theravāda bodhisattvas and Mūlasarvāstivāda bodhisattvas and Dharmaguptaka bodhisattvas.
And it probably should go without saying, but probably should be said, the above is a Mahayana framework that has no real bearing upon the Theravada.

The Theravāda also teaches the bodhisattvayāna. Thus a Theravāda bodhisattva wouldn't necessarily need to learn Mahāyāna sūtras, but it certainly wouldn't hurt since the bodhisattvayāna isn't explicitly taught in the Pāḷi Canon. (Hence Ven. Dhammapāla's use of the Bodhisattvabhūmi from the Yogācārabhūmiśāstra when composing his commentary on the Pāramī-s for Theravāda practitioners who wish to engage in the perfections and practice the mahābodhiyāna of bodhisattas.)

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby alan » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:01 am

You are assuming your conclusion, which in itself is intellectually dishonest, and the rest what you have said is smoke, designed to obscure. I don't buy it.

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:04 am

Ñāṇa wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Ñāṇa wrote:The six perfections taught in the bodhisattvayāna . . . The Mahāyāna isn't a sect. It's a vehicle for those to aspire to awaken to buddhahood. Thus there are Theravāda bodhisattvas and Mūlasarvāstivāda bodhisattvas and Dharmaguptaka bodhisattvas.
And it probably should go without saying, but probably should be said, the above is a Mahayana framework that has no real bearing upon the Theravada.

The Theravāda also teaches the bodhisattvayāna. Thus a Theravāda bodhisattva wouldn't necessarily need to learn Mahāyāna sūtras, but it certainly wouldn't hurt since the bodhisattvayāna isn't explicitly taught in the Pāḷi Canon. (Hence Ven. Dhammapāla's use of the Bodhisattvabhūmi from the Yogācārabhūmiśāstra when composing his commentary on the Pāramī-s for Theravāda practitioners who wish to engage in the perfections and practice the mahābodhiyāna of bodhisattas.)
The Theravāda teaches a bodhisattva path, but there is no need to put it into a Mahayana framework. Also, the Buddha did not teach it. As for the Mahayana sutras, naw.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Do you also read Mahayana Sutras?

Postby Nyana » Sat Dec 11, 2010 6:05 am

alan wrote:You are assuming your conclusion

What conclusion would that be?

alan wrote:which in itself is intellectually dishonest

How so?

alan wrote:and the rest what you have said is smoke, designed to obscure.

Not a very stimulating or informed reply.

All the best,

Geoff


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