Doubting Enlightenment

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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Annapurna
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jan 31, 2010 3:01 pm

http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Jan 31, 2010 8:52 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Kim OHara
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Kim OHara » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:10 pm


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Bhikkhu Pesala
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:41 pm

Doubt about enlightenment can be overcome by attaining .

At this stage, though not yet enlightened nor totally free from doubt, one can be called a A wise and virtuous ordinary person is also called a lesser stream-winner (cūḷa-sotāpanna). His or her knowledge of dependent origination is not mere intellectual knowledge from books, but arises through analytical insight into mind and matter, and knowledge of conditionality. We're still talking about mundane right view, not supramundane right view.

Doubt can be eradicated by attaining .
• • • • (Upasampadā: 24th June, 1979)

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retrofuturist
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Jan 31, 2010 10:48 pm

Well said, bhante.

:anjali:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Guy
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Guy » Sun Jan 31, 2010 11:24 pm

Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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Dan74
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Mon Feb 01, 2010 4:13 am

_/|\_

chownah
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby chownah » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:07 pm

I don't doubt enlightenment nor do I believe in it......there is no way to know for sure.....to me it doesn't matter if it exists or not or if it happens or not or whatever.....the path can be followed without the enticement of enlightenment being dangled at the end.
chownah

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Prasadachitta
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Prasadachitta » Mon Feb 01, 2010 2:52 pm

"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332

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Kim OHara
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Kim OHara » Mon Feb 01, 2010 10:21 pm


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Dan74
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Re: Doubting Enlightenment

Postby Dan74 » Tue Feb 02, 2010 12:18 am

I don't think the learning analogy applies, Kim. learning outcomes are conditioned and learning is about acquiring.

Enlightenment from where I stand is unconditioned and it's realization is more akin to recognition of something that has been there all along but remained obscured. So it's more about letting go (of what obsures) than acquiring. Until as old Zen masters said "the bottom of the black lacquer bucket falls out" or a "chick breaks through the shell".

Saying more will just give rise to confusion. Best to practice just where we are, I think.

_/|\_
_/|\_


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