And 99.999% of suffering & pain is due to potentially endless rebirths. It is impossible to shed enough blood to fill four great oceans (SN15.13) in one life. But in trillions of lifetimes as a flesh&blood being, one can. Same with shedding tears (SN15.3), filling a mountain worth of one's own dead bodies (SN15.10), etc.daverupa wrote:On this view, you would have to claim that one must be convinced of the speculative metaphysics of rebirth before one could come to see that samsara is dukkha. However, "birth, old age, death, sorrow, lamentation, misery, grief, and despair" can be observed as dukkha without recourse to such speculation, and as such the Four Noble Truths are not reliant on rebirth as their raison d'etre.1. No Samsara: no need to break this wheel, it never exists!!
“The heap of bones one person leaves behind With the passing of a single aeon Would form a heap as high as a mountain: Such is said by the Great Sage.
...But when one sees with correct wisdom The truths of the noble ones—Suffering and its origination, The overcoming of suffering, And the noble eightfold path That leads to suffering’s appeasement— Then that person, having wandered on For seven more times at the most, Makes an utter end to suffering
By destroying all the fetters.” - SN 15.10 (10) Person BB Trans.
Please note: When one is stream-enterer, one will at most will die 7 times, and leave 7 corpses. A worldling can die endlessly until reaching stream-entry.
"This is the greater: the tears you have shed while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — not the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a mother. The tears you have shed over the death of a mother while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Long have you (repeatedly) experienced the death of a father... the death of a brother... the death of a sister... the death of a son... the death of a daughter... loss with regard to relatives... loss with regard to wealth... loss with regard to disease. The tears you have shed over loss with regard to disease while transmigrating & wandering this long, long time — crying & weeping from being joined with what is displeasing, being separated from what is pleasing — are greater than the water in the four great oceans.
"Why is that? From an inconstruable beginning comes transmigration. A beginning point is not evident, though beings hindered by ignorance and fettered by craving are transmigrating & wandering on. Long have you thus experienced stress, experienced pain, experienced loss, swelling the cemeteries — enough to become disenchanted with all fabricated things, enough to become dispassionate, enough to be released."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
"For a long time, bhikkhus, you have been cows, and when as cows your heads were cut off, the stream of blood that you shed is greater than the waters in the four great oceans. For a long time you have been buffalo, sheep, goats, deer, chickens, and pigs…. For a long time you have been arrested as robbers, as highwaymen, as adulterers, and when your heads were cut off, the stream of blood that you shed is greater than the water in the four great oceans.
For what reason? Because, bhikkhus, this saṃsāra is without discoverable beginning…. It is enough to be liberated from them.” - SN15.13 (3) BB Trans.
If suffering were limited only to tears being shed, and bodily pains of one life, then it wouldn't be as bad as having to go through it for endless amount of time until Arhatship.
“Bhikkhus, suppose that the Himalayas, the king of mountains, would be destroyed and eliminated except for seven grains of gravel the size of mustard seeds. What do you think, bhikkhus, which is more: the portion of the Himalayas, the king of mountains, that has been destroyed and eliminated or the seven grains of gravel the size of mustard see ds that remain?”
“Venerable sir, the portion of the Himalayas, the king of mountains, that has been destroyed and eliminated is more. The seven grains of gravel the size of mustard seeds that remain are trifling. Compared to the portion of the Himalayas, the king of mountains, that has been destroyed and eliminated, the seven grains of gravel the size of mustard seeds that remain are not calculable, do not bear comparison, do not amount even to a fraction.”
“So too, bhikkhus, for a noble disciple, a person accomplished in view who has made the breakthrough, the suffering that has been destroyed and eliminated is more, while that which remains is trifling. Compared to the former mass of suffering that has been destroyed and eliminated, the latter is not calculable, does not bear comparison, does not amount even to a fraction, as there is a maximum of seven more lives." - SN 56.60 (10) The Mountain(2) BB Trans.
Again, suffering in 7 lives is trifling compared to what could be experienced in potentially endless samsara. So to deny rebirths with all their peril, what one does is that one denies the full extent of dukkha and the importance of getting out. If there is one life, then it is possible to end all suffering merely by dying. But if there is rebirth, this will not work and this would be great dukkha!