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Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:00 am
by MayaRefugee
Hey Guys,
Can anyone provide me with some insights regarding the pursuit of goals and goal setting.
Pre buddhism I used to set goals in the hope of negating my burning discontentedness with things as the were, the motivation to achieve these goals was, the way I remember it, pretty strong as a result - basically my theory was to replace what I was discontent with with its opposite (if that makes sense?).
These days, being a lot more content with the ways things are, there's not much (persistent) discontent to try and eradicate from my life thus I am finding that I struggle to find that type of all consuming motivation to passionately pursue goals like I used to - it's like a fire has gone out that used to serve as my reason to do certain things and now all the reasons I can muster are devoid of any epic force which makes it easy for me to talk myself out of doing them - I can take them or leave them sort of thing - they don't seem like neccessities.
I must admit my intentions and goals aren't crystal clear and could still be being exagerated/distorted by my old ways of thinking which could be the problem aswell.
Anyway, just thought I'd see what you guys have to offer.
Peace,
MR
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:04 am
by retrofuturist
Greetings MR,
Do you still have suffering in your life?
If so, stream-entry is a good goal to aim for! That'll keep you productively occupied...
Metta,
Retro.
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:19 am
by Sanghamitta
As far as day to daily life is concerned Mayarefugee, I think there is a tendency for western Buddhists to assume that goals are somehow not Buddhist. I think in part that this is residue from the 60's directly or indirectly when a whole generation took a step back from the consumer society. But as is often the case it went too far.
I think that there is a good case for goals in lfe, whether on the meditation cushion or in daily life generally.
The important thing is to keep them flexible. Goals and plans are scaffolding not solid buildings.
You mention being more content with things as they are. I think what Buddhism teaches us is to see things as they truly are. Whether we are then content with what we see is a different issue.
Valerie.
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:40 am
by MayaRefugee
Retro,
I do suffer from certain recurrences but I find I have the "mind tools" to quickly find peace with the cause/reasons of that suffering (atleast to a degree I am currently satisfied with) - it used to be the things that plagued me that made me act to replace them with their opposite and this opposiet was a clear goal I could visualise and use as a source of inspiration, but that was when I was extremely naive and ignorant of the nature of things which I feel I'm more educated and learned of now - not perfect but better - and it's like I can rebuke any reason for chasing after anything so nothing really permeates my being to fuel the desire I used to rely on for action.
Sangha,
Your points are very interesting, I think I started this thread to see my goal(s) as they truly are; its clear to me they are infected with the residue of my old ways of thinking.The particular goal I have is to lose weight/body-fat but the thing is I'm content with the body I have at the moment and have learned to live with it and the life it brings me/entitles me to so I'm struggling to find a/that "carrot" that will get me dedicated.
Thanks for your replies guys.
Peace,
MR
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 8:46 am
by Sanghamitta
Why do you want to have a different body shape ..is it for medical or other reasons ?.
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:03 am
by MayaRefugee
It would be nice to have a different body shape:
- to rub it in the nose of those people in my memory/dreams that teased/tease my younger self about my/its aesthetic.
- to see what doors open up as a result.
- so I'm doing what healthy people do and caring about my health.
My reasons are stupid and superficial and I don't really believe in them.....
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:11 am
by Ben
Hi MF
There are some very good health benefits to reducing one's weight if one is already overweight. However, approaching that 'project' with grasping and/or aversion, it will not rid you of those negative mind states such as lack of confidence, lack of self esteem, craving for social acceptance and opportunity. If you are already overweight, it is better to approach your weightloss regime with equanimity.
kind regards
Ben
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:27 am
by MayaRefugee
Thanks Ben,
Ignoring the obvious issues involved with the "instant fixes" I think weightloss will bring me I still think it would be the best foundation to start working on these issues from.
To get to this foundation I want to find an approach that I agree with and believe in deep down, somehting that calls me to action without, as you said, clinging or aversion - Joseph Campbell had a word for this but I can't think of it, the thing is nothing really rattles my cage anymore, as I said I can take it or leave it these days - I need to find a "why" that is congruent with me.
Peace,
MR
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 9:37 am
by Pannapetar
Yes, I think setting goals is important. It has served me well.
If overweight bothers you, it's probably a good idea to set goals and reduce it. I agree with Ben that the health benefits are very worthwhile. From a Buddhist perspective, there might be a connection between overweight and right effort. Overweight has a tendency to make physical activities more tiring and it negatively affects strength and endurance.
Cheers, Thomas
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Fri May 14, 2010 1:53 pm
by chownah
We all have intentions and aren't they really just one kind of goal...or is it that goals are just one kind of intention....I forget which it is....or isn't....
chownah
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 11:27 am
by ground
If there were no causes for suffering there would be no causes leading to the cessation of suffering that expel these causes (for suffering) and there would be no suffering beings at all beyond that.
Since causes can only be called "conducive" with reference to specific goals the setting of a goal is the prerequisite for cultivating the corresponding conducive causes. If there is no goal set the cultivation of inconsistent "causes" (i.e. conducive to contradictory effects) is necessarily the consequence.
Kind regards
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 12:14 pm
by MayaRefugee
Interesting TMingyur,
Does Nibbana (being the ultimate goal) have a requisite body condition?
Is it attainable (or even actual Nibbana) if the body containing the mind that attains/strives for it it isn't in a certain state?
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 2:08 pm
by ground
Hi MR
MayaRefugee wrote:Interesting TMingyur,
Does Nibbana (being the ultimate goal) have a requisite body condition?
Is it attainable (or even actual Nibbana) if the body containing the mind that attains/strives for it it isn't in a certain state?
The requisite body conditions are 1) a human body and 2) sound sense faculties which of course also covers the use of medical devices likes glasses or hearing aids.
Kind regards
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 3:23 pm
by Khalil Bodhi
TMingyur wrote:Hi MR
MayaRefugee wrote:Interesting TMingyur,
Does Nibbana (being the ultimate goal) have a requisite body condition?
Is it attainable (or even actual Nibbana) if the body containing the mind that attains/strives for it it isn't in a certain state?
The requisite body conditions are 1) a human body and 2) sound sense faculties which of course also covers the use of medical devices likes glasses or hearing aids.
Kind regards
Just a quick note that this is defintiely a Vajrayana position. In Theravada thought, brahmas and devas can also attain Nibbana.
Metta.
Re: Buddhism and Goals
Posted: Sat May 15, 2010 4:39 pm
by Annapurna
MayaRefugee wrote:It would be nice to have a different body shape:
- to rub it in the nose of those people in my memory/dreams that teased/tease my younger self about my/its aesthetic.
- to see what doors open up as a result.
- so I'm doing what healthy people do and caring about my health.
My reasons are stupid and superficial and I don't really believe in them.....
Your reasons are understandable though. Getting teased is usually a bitter lesson.
I'm sure the hardships of weight loss (hunger, desire, craving, loss of pleasure/ comfort) are easier to bear when you imagine all the benefits you will enjoy:
Better health, self-confidence, and perhaps better relationships.
Please don't think that you are superficial or that you goals are.
You're trying to adapt to a superficial world.
In a way, those people are your 'friends', as hard as it may be to see.
They push you in the right direction, only with unpleasant means, even hostility.
It could be that if you have acquired a perfect physical shape, they will find something else they must correct in you.
Why? Because people 'hate' something in themselves.
Hermann Hesse:
If you hate a person, you hate something in him that is part of yourself. What isn't part of ourselves doesn't disturb us.
Of course hate is a bit too strong here.
I wish you success, and that you reach your ideal shape, and that you will be healthy!
Metta,
Annapurna