Has he become intoxicated? Has he become heedless?PeterB wrote:So..is my friend J wrong ? Is he in breach of the 5th precept ?
Metta,
Retro.
Has he become intoxicated? Has he become heedless?PeterB wrote:So..is my friend J wrong ? Is he in breach of the 5th precept ?
Preparing for violence is not avoiding it. In my school of martial arts we learn to learn how attackers think and how to try and calm them down. We learn how not to inflame them and how to hopefully diffuse the situation. We learn how to escape from a conflict. Lastly, we learn how to fight if need be. When you know what you are doing in a physical conflict, both you and the other person are safer. You might be able to stop your opponent with less harm to yourself and to him or her. I can bring an opponent to the ground aggressively and then start shouting at them -- the violence may be over. I can put them in a submission move just to show them who is dominant physically, and they may desist without causing any further harm. I may hurt someone just enough for me to getaway, or for someone else to. That is not violence; it is controlling a situation. (hoepefully will never have to do any of those things in real life).Mukunda wrote:I am not getting the logic of avoiding violence by preparing for it. Does this not set up inevitable mental conflict? Avoid violence, but if you can't, engage in it?Virgo wrote:Here is the 14 point code of action from the martial art I study, To-Shin Do, which was developed by Stephen K. Hayes, black belt hall of famer, and Bujinkan 10'th Dan (tenth degree black belt).
Each rank has a code of action to develop and train in.
(note the belt colors may seem strange but in To-Shin Do the learning is structured around learning tactics for the five elements in order and the main belt levels have colors associated with them based on traditional color attributes to those elements, so for example, the belts start with yellow for earth. To make matters more complicated, different colored stripes are needed to indicate the stages within each elements training).
Yellow Belt
I protect life and health,
I avoid violence whenever possible...
The cold, hard fact is that firearms and other weapons exist and that people own them and will continue to. The other cold hard fact is that some people will use them for harm, but others will not. We can't just remove all the firearms from the earth and throw them in a snakepit .Pannapetar wrote:Only Americans believe that this has to do with politics. It doesn't. It has to do with math. It can be shown statistically that the number of guns owned by a population correlates with the number of death caused by guns. That's all - just a cold and hard fact.Virgo wrote:This is getting more into politics. [...] Someone may have many guns but never kill anyone with them because they are only a collector.
I live in the Catskill mountains. I see people toting weapons all the time. They are not going to point them at me. They want deer, rabbits, etc.Mukunda wrote: Does ANYONE really not feel at least a little apprehensive when seeing some one toting around a weapon. My guess is anyone who hasn't such sankaras also hasn't any need or use for weapons.
yeah but you could easily hurt someone with a throwing dart! is it wrong to touch them??? people that throw darts at a dart board are violent???????? or a baseball bat is frequently used as a weapon, is it ok to play baseball? even the javelin is clearly derived from a spear!!!!!! is it wrong to have it in the olympics??? never tried to throw a boomerang? originally a weapon! cut things with a cooking knife??? originally a weapon!!!!!!!!!!Dukkhanirodha wrote:To me, touching a weapon is even more repellent than picking up a fresh and warm dogshit. Let alone using it.
But if some people like that touch, what can be told to them?
What should be told to them?Dukkhanirodha wrote:To me, touching a weapon is even more repellent than picking up a fresh and warm dogshit. Let alone using it.
But if some people like that touch, what can be told to them?
Utter bilge water. You do not know that from direct experience. It is at best a biased guess.Mukunda wrote: I submit that seeing, using, collecting, or playing with weapons, is NOT in itself violence. But such activities do provide nutriment to subtle mental impressions and conditioning that is counterproductive to the spirit of ahimsa.
And your continued attack does not speak volumes?And I do NOT think that means direct intent to commit harm, but rather is a subtle and more difficult to recognize negative influence on our mental processes. The fact that so many feel the need to defend their practices speaks volumes.
Sorry, but your opinion on this is just your opinion, based upon your biases and whatever that goes with them.So collect, play with, and glorify weapons if you so desire. I do NOT think you are evil. I doNOT think you are violent. I do NOT think you intend to harm others. I DO think you are harming yourself and creating conflict in your own mind and watering seeds of fear in other peoples minds. But people gotta do what they gotta do 'til they ain't gotta do it anymore.
The precept as was given to me is "I undertake the precept to abstain from alcohol and drugs causing heedlessness." It does not say "abstain from intoxication or heedlessness".PeterB wrote:Another example which is less emotive than that involving euthanasia.
And may need moving, mods...
I have a friend who has been a practising Theravada Buddhist for almost 50 years.
For many years he served as chair of a local Dhamma group. He has been a student of Vipassana for 30 years, and has helped many others ( including giving financial aid ) to attend Vipassana courses and so on. His dealings with others are characterised by kindliness and warmth. He is an inspiration to many.
He still works tirelessly for the Dhamma.
He also has a glass of wine or sherry after dinner when not on retreat etc.
He does not consider that a breach of any precept.
Is he wrong ?
I'm not sure how you can possibly know what I know from direct experience.tiltbillings wrote:Utter bilge water. You do not know that from direct experience. It is at best a biased guess.
And your continued attack does not speak volumes?
Sorry, but your opinion on this is just your opinion, based upon your biases and whatever that goes with them.
"And this is the way to understand how it is that because of defensiveness various evil, unskillful phenomena come into play: the taking up of sticks and knives; conflicts, quarrels, and disputes; accusations, divisive speech, and lies. If there were no defensiveness at all, in any way, of anything anywhere, in the utter absence of defensiveness, from the cessation of defensiveness, would various evil, unskillful phenomena — the taking up of sticks and knives; conflicts, quarrels, and disputes; accusations, divisive speech, and lies — come into play?" - Maha-nidana Sutta: The Great Causes Discourse DN 15