cause of birth of new humans

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Re: cause of birth of new humans

Postby retrofuturist » Thu Jun 10, 2010 1:13 am

Greetings,

Action leads to jati, not just unwholesome action.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: cause of birth of new humans

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Jun 10, 2010 2:45 pm

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings,

Action leads to jati, not just unwholesome action.

Metta,
Retro. :)

oh... of course you're absolutely right.
best wishes, acinteyyo
Last edited by acinteyyo on Fri Jun 11, 2010 11:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: cause of birth of new humans

Postby acinteyyo » Thu Jun 10, 2010 3:18 pm

PeterB wrote:So all human endevour, noble and ignoble, mundane and creative, merciful and cruel, indeed the sum total of human existance is reducible to unskillful action ? Goethe, Shakespeare, Michelangelo, Einstein, Picasso, all those who man suicide prevention lines, all those who care for the newborn, who care for the dying, who spend the night in meditation, who feed the needy, who give their lives in the cause of justice, all those who use their intellects to solve the riddles of creation and to find cures for disease and explore the depths of space and of the oceans....all exist because of unskillful action ? Because of grasping ?
This is kamma as Original Sin.

Hi Peter,

you are an entertaining guy. I already said that your association skills are already quite well developed but I really can't comprehend your confuse way of thinking. You are jumping to conclusions very fast.

You ask whether all human endevour, ... indeed the sum total of human existence is reducible to unskillful action? .. all exist because of unskillful action? Because of grasping?
Why do you ask such irrelevant questions with regard to the cause of birth?
I didn't say anything about the origination of those things you asked above and, as I said, they're totally unimportant to me.

What I said is that "birth" comes from craving and grasping. And here with "birth" I don't actually mean the concoction of matter. What I mean is the "I-making" and "my-making". If any one of the five aggregates will be regarded as "mine", this leads to the arising of the belief that there must be "someone" (attavada) who possesses what is supposed to belong to the presupposed possessor. Such kind of "action" (kamma) leads to birth of a person (sakkāya) thinking "I am this or that". And a person is the five aggregates of grasping (pañc'upādānakkhandhā).

best wishes, acinteyyo
Pubbe cāhaṃ bhikkhave, etarahi ca dukkhañceva paññāpemi, dukkhassa ca nirodhaṃ. (M.22)
Both formerly, monks, and now, it is just suffering that I make known and the ending of suffering.
Pathabyā ekarajjena, saggassa gamanena vā sabbalokādhipaccena, sotāpattiphalaṃ varaṃ. (Dhp 178)
Sole dominion over the earth, going to heaven or lordship over all worlds: the fruit of stream-entry excels them.

:anjali:
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Re: cause of birth of new humans

Postby Rui Sousa » Fri Jun 11, 2010 9:20 pm

chownah wrote:What with invitro fertilization etc. seems like descending in a womb is not necessary any more....and....that you can freeze an egg and a sperm indefinitely and then unite them resulting in a living being....is there some ghost like entity keeping track of all the frozen eggs and sperms and just waiting for any possible union and then either assigning or not assigning a kammic connection at that exact moment?.....is there a cosmic validation window where all egg/sperm duos go apply for permission etc.??????.....or maybe is the kammic connection just a way to explain to people that sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't?....did people in the Buddha's time even know about sperm and eggs?....I think they knew that the male had to contribute a bit of fluid (as evidenced by similarities with many observable animals like cows, frogs, fish, etc.) but could they have just had the idea that the fluid presented at the right time created the possibility and there was some cosmic decider....the whole idea seems a bit bizarre and not really too important an idea when it comes to progress on the path....
chownah


As I understand it the Kamma for rupa formation, i.e. egg fertilization, is not the same that leads to the first citta supported on that rupa.

Meaning that maybe the rupa that will support this mind continuum in a next existence may already be formed and frozen. In the future, someone would do something that would make that rupa to be unfrozen and placed in a womb. Then the first citta associated to that rupa would occur. If no citta is associated with that rupa, it will perish soon after unfrozen.

I do believe ancient people, as far back as the neolithic, had a pretty god idea of the role of sperm and eggs, and from where sperm and eggs came from, hence the phallic megaliths with sperm flowing downwards, and the womb like dolmens were humans were buried (probably returning "home").
With Metta
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