How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

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How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Fri Jul 02, 2010 9:40 am

Hi, all,

this is a thread that took its origin in another thread.

It doesn't matter who asked what and who replied what, as I don't want the involved persons to feel exposed, embarrassed or shamed, that's what we're trying to get away from when we follow the teachings of the Buddha and right speech.

That said, I would appreciate a general, impersonal discussion.

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Anna,

X response may be challenging, and therefore not easy and comfortable for Y to take on board, but if Y does as X has suggested, he will have a far better understanding of kamma than he had previously. If this is what Y wants, then what X provided should prove very helpful and I see none of the "crushes him, ridicules him" variety of malice you attribute to him.

If Y wanted to be molly-coddled, then there won't be much in X response for him. Molly-coddling however, won't help someone differentiate what the Buddha taught about kamma, from erroneous understandings of kamma held by Hindus, some Mahayanists and popular culture. To that end, is molly-coddling really as kind and caring and connected with someone's welfare as it might superificially seem?

Metta,
Retro. :)


Thank you, Retro, I appreciate your input.

Imo, to pass on information, all that is needed is the naked information that was asked for, and nothing else.

All other additions are

A.) OT, (for instance comments about the asking person), and
B.) serve another purpose (that we will take a closer look at later).

To illuminate the issue at hand some more, let us

1. acknowledge the results of psychological studies first, and
2. keep in mind that the Buddha was an excellent 'psychologist'. :smile:

1. Modern psychology:

Studies have shown that children 'shut down' and stop asking questions, if the question is shaming them -often publicly, by things like: "What a crazy question! How can you even think something like this? Shows your ignorance. But I know, and now listen. "

Children thus belittled will carefully avoid to make themselves targets for this type of reaction again.
They will either stop asking certain people, or asking entirely, because they feel their ability to predict replies is insufficient, or people are unpredictable.

What's worse, even if a reply contained a valuable truth, passed on in a poor way, the child will often not be able to absorb it, due to stress.

Even if a child could absorb the truth, it will refuse to accept something from a person who caused it a defeat and totally unnecessary pain.

It's probably no big surprise that adults react in the same way children do.

Conclusion: To add personally belittling comments about the asking person is 100% counterproductive to passing on knowledge, so why is it given at all?

Well, psychology gives us many reasons, but I will name only 3:

A. The replying person lacks insight in the counterproductive character of it's reply,
B. The person has insight, but lacks skills.
C. The person is attempting to boost his ego at the expense of another, since an opportunity arose. This may not be intentional!!

However, if a person has the information that was asked for, has insight in "right speech" and is skilled enough to manifest it, then his reply will necessarily only contain the information that was asked for, and will be passed on in a way that is devoid of both offenses and "molly-coddling". It rests in the neutral "middle" (path).

There is no need to arise for any of the 2.

Now, how do the Buddha's teachings tie into those psychological insights?

Buddha knew all this and taught it:

Buddhadhamma:

Five keys to right speech

"Monks, a statement endowed with five factors is well-spoken, not ill-spoken. It is blameless & unfaulted by knowledgeable people. Which five?

"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html

Those who discuss when angered, dogmatic, arrogant, following what's not the noble ones' way, seeking to expose each other's faults, delight in each other's misspoken word, slip, stumble, defeat. Noble ones don't speak in that way. If wise people, knowing the right time, want to speak, then, words connected with justice, following the ways of the noble ones: That's what the enlightened ones speak, without anger or arrogance, with a mind not boiling over, without vehemence, without spite. Without envy they speak from right knowledge. They would delight in what's well-said and not disparage what's not. They don't study to find fault, don't grasp at little mistakes. don't put down, don't crush, don't speak random words. For the purpose of knowledge, for the purpose of [inspiring] clear confidence, counsel that's true: That's how noble ones give counsel, That's the noble ones' counsel. Knowing this, the wise should give counsel without arrogance."


http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html


Right speech is harder to follow than most of Buddhas advice, I once read. And I agree.

We can only manifest it according to our insight and practice, but I can confirm that it has helped to improve my human relationships tremendously, and continues to do so, since I am still far from perfect in application.

But I wish to encourage anybody to carefully read the links I posted, in case they are new to you.

Metta,

Anna
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Jul 02, 2010 10:54 am

Hi, Anna,
I have liked the five factors of Right Speech ever since I came across them:
Five keys to right speech
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."

If you can't manage all five at once, for any reason, numbers 2 and 5 are the absolute essentials, IMO. Sometimes there is no such thing as a good time to say something that nevertheless has to be said, but so long as it is true and spoken with goodwill it is (nearly always!) better than silence or a lie.

Your second dhamma quote really just spells out aspects of the five keys given in your first.
What you say about people shutting out advice if it is accompanied by condescension or derision is true, but if factors 3, 4 and/or 5 are present then such problems will not exist.
If the advice or teaching is at an inappropriate level but is otherwise good, the recipient will generally feel comfortable enough to ask for more explanation, and that should be okay if the advice-giver really understands what s/he is talking about. (If they don't, you have a different kind of difficulty, which is best solved by an admission of ignorance :tongue: )

As you say, maintaining Right Speech can be difficult. However, it is an essential part of the path and we just have to keep on trying - we do get better with practice!
:namaste:
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby OcTavO » Fri Jul 02, 2010 1:30 pm

In my day-to-day experience, I find that no amount of good intention on my behalf will make someone receptive to my words unless I speak them politely and gently.

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Spiny Norman » Sat Jul 03, 2010 8:39 am

OcTavO wrote:In my day-to-day experience, I find that no amount of good intention on my behalf will make someone receptive to my words unless I speak them politely and gently.


It also helps to explain things in a way that the listener can really understand. :smile:

P
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 03, 2010 9:57 am

Oktavo and Porpoise, I agree!

Kim O'Hara wrote:Hi, Anna,
I have liked the five factors of Right Speech ever since I came across them:
Five keys to right speech
"It is spoken at the right time. It is spoken in truth. It is spoken affectionately. It is spoken beneficially. It is spoken with a mind of good-will."

If you can't manage all five at once, for any reason, numbers 2 and 5 are the absolute essentials, IMO. Sometimes there is no such thing as a good time to say something that nevertheless has to be said, but so long as it is true and spoken with goodwill it is (nearly always!) better than silence or a lie.

Your second dhamma quote really just spells out aspects of the five keys given in your first.
What you say about people shutting out advice if it is accompanied by condescension or derision is true, but if factors 3, 4 and/or 5 are present then such problems will not exist.
If the advice or teaching is at an inappropriate level but is otherwise good, the recipient will generally feel comfortable enough to ask for more explanation, and that should be okay if the advice-giver really understands what s/he is talking about. (If they don't, you have a different kind of difficulty, which is best solved by an admission of ignorance :tongue: )

As you say, maintaining Right Speech can be difficult. However, it is an essential part of the path and we just have to keep on trying - we do get better with practice!
:namaste:
Kim


Hi, Kim, if I'm not mistaken, then you have a rich experience if teaching, and I think it shows in your words.

Your second dhamma quote really just spells out aspects of the five keys given in your first.
What you say about people shutting out advice if it is accompanied by condescension or derision is true, but if factors 3, 4 and/or 5 are present then such problems will not exist.


Right. Spoken affectionately, beneficially, good willed. I can see it happen almost all of the time that teens -who are sensitive anyways-, are willing to undergo the hardest drill, if I am patient, give them confidence, and don't hurt their pride.

If a test comes, I may resort to drilling it in...via constant repetition, knowing it will have an effect on the brain, and will explain I am not doing it to shame them, but to make them fit.

It is beautiful to see how this will increase their willingness to work hard.

If the advice or teaching is at an inappropriate level but is otherwise good, the recipient will generally feel comfortable enough to ask for more explanation, and that should be okay if the advice-giver really understands what s/he is talking about.


Yes, I agree.
If you can't manage all five at once, for any reason, numbers 2 and 5 are the absolute essentials, IMO.


What you say here is so interesting for me. Truth and good will. (Just had a deja vu, wow. Did we discuss this before, perhaps ? ) :smile:

Either way, I have quite often witnessed people who claimed to only "mean well" and to "only speak the truth", but hit people over the head with it, in ways that were not beneficial for those, because it came at a bad moment, leaving them crushed, etc.

I have witnessed this so often, that I wonder if those 2 should really be applied if the others are not present as well. The Buddha does say, a statement is well spoken if all 5 factors are present...

:shrug:


Metta,

Anna
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:16 am

Greetings Anna,

I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?

Isn't there a point at which one's acceptance of the inevitability of the eight worldly winds is better than blowing back into the wind?

See for example...

AN 8.6: Lokavipatti Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Wouldn't renouncing these attachments and worldly concerns be the best outcome?

Metta,
Retro. :)
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Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


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One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Jul 03, 2010 10:47 am

Annapurna wrote:...
Hi, Kim, if I'm not mistaken, then you have a rich experience if teaching, and I think it shows in your words.

Your second dhamma quote really just spells out aspects of the five keys given in your first.
What you say about people shutting out advice if it is accompanied by condescension or derision is true, but if factors 3, 4 and/or 5 are present then such problems will not exist.


Right. Spoken affectionately, beneficially, good willed. I can see it happen almost all of the time that teens -who are sensitive anyways-, are willing to undergo the hardest drill, if I am patient, give them confidence, and don't hurt their pride. ...

If you can't manage all five at once, for any reason, numbers 2 and 5 are the absolute essentials, IMO.


What you say here is so interesting for me. Truth and good will. (Just had a deja vu, wow. Did we discuss this before, perhaps ? ) :smile:

Either way, I have quite often witnessed people who claimed to only "mean well" and to "only speak the truth", but hit people over the head with it, in ways that were not beneficial for those, because it came at a bad moment, leaving them crushed, etc.

I have witnessed this so often, that I wonder if those 2 should really be applied if the others are not present as well. The Buddha does say, a statement is well spoken if all 5 factors are present...

Hi, Anna,
Yes, I have been a teacher for a long time and yes, I may have said something like this before :smile:
As I learn more about the dhamma, I am continually impressed by the Buddha's skills as a teacher, quite apart from the content of his teachings (though the content is of course the most important).
As for his five factors, I didn't mean you could ignore numbers 1, 3 and 4. I think you have to apply as many of them as possible, but that without 2 and 5 you are almost certainly risking trouble.
As for your "people who claimed to only "mean well" and to "only speak the truth", but hit people over the head with it," either they were not quite sincere about claiming only to mean well or they lacked the skill to present information at the right level and pace.
That's not an easy skill to learn and apply, either, and the internet makes it far harder: ideally, the teacher can watch the student for signs of understanding or bafflement and change the approach mid-way. Can't do that on a bulletin board, can you?

retro wrote:I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?

Isn't there a point at which one's acceptance of the inevitability of the eight worldly winds is better than blowing back into the wind?

Retro, I don't understand the relationship of this post to the OP of this thread, since Anna didn't complain about anyone but asked about the relationship between good teaching manners and the dhamma. If you are harking back to a previous discussion, perhaps you need to say so or continue that discussion in its original context?

(No need to answer that, actually, because I'll be away for the next few days, bushwalking. If you're really lucky I'll post some photos in Anna's 'share photos' thread when I get back.)
:namaste:
Kim

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sat Jul 03, 2010 11:03 am

retrofuturist wrote:Greetings Anna,

I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?

Isn't there a point at which one's acceptance of the inevitability of the eight worldly winds is better than blowing back into the wind?

See for example...

AN 8.6: Lokavipatti Sutta
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

Wouldn't renouncing these attachments and worldly concerns be the best outcome?

Metta,
Retro. :)



Hello, Retro, I explained in my intro where the idea for this topic originated, but that is not tantamount to wanting to continue here!

On the contrary, as I pointed out, I explicitly asked to get away from persons:

That said, I would appreciate a general, impersonal discussion.


Therefore, it's not about concerns and complaints about people, but about a 'scholarly' Dhamma discussion and I hope this is welcome and I was able to clarify it.

:anjali:

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Jul 03, 2010 2:21 pm

Hi Anna,

One thing to consider might be the expressive limitations of text-based communications such as message boards, e-mail, etc. It's a notorious problem with these types of media. In "real" life we depend greatly on facial expressions, tone and gesture to convey emotion or intention -- indeed, this dimension of communication can be more important than the literal content of what someone is saying.

But on the net, these signals are mostly absent. So what do we do? I think in many cases, we "fill in the gap" by projecting our own interpretations.

Someone might simply be aiming for clarity -- but the words get read instead as blunt, impatient or dismissive. Someone might be making an impersonal observation, but it becomes personalized by the reader. So I think if we are trying to be more skillful, it may help to keep this missing dimension in mind -- both when we post messages and when we read those by others.

Not that this is easy to do...

LE

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 10:31 am

Lazy_eye wrote:Hi Anna,

One thing to consider might be the expressive limitations of text-based communications such as message boards, e-mail, etc. It's a notorious problem with these types of media. In "real" life we depend greatly on facial expressions, tone and gesture to convey emotion or intention -- indeed, this dimension of communication can be more important than the literal content of what someone is saying.

But on the net, these signals are mostly absent. So what do we do? I think in many cases, we "fill in the gap" by projecting our own interpretations.

Someone might simply be aiming for clarity -- but the words get read instead as blunt, impatient or dismissive. Someone might be making an impersonal observation, but it becomes personalized by the reader. So I think if we are trying to be more skillful, it may help to keep this missing dimension in mind -- both when we post messages and when we read those by others.

Not that this is easy to do...

LE

Quite so. Some posts may strike us as jarring but could be a means by which another person grasps something more clearly. Some of my own most useful internet learning has come about when people have been very direct. We cannot dictate the tone of communication to others within the forum guidelines.
I happen to think that online forums are a useful but very limited way of communicating the Dhamma. They require skill not just in communicating , but in reading, in order to get the full gist of what is being communicated. The forum has guidelines that are sensitively followed by the moderators in my opinion.
I don't think that we need meta-discussions on how precisely to address each other in addition to the existing guidelines.
Lets just concentrate on our own posts being within forum guidelines and to the point, and allow the moderators to do the police work.
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Ben » Sun Jul 04, 2010 11:40 am

Nicely said, Valerie!
Learn this from the waters:
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loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

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sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Hoo » Sun Jul 04, 2010 1:44 pm

...I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?...


Well, I think it's time for another year-long vacation from this place (hold your applause, please). I don't think I"ve ever seen one Buddhist insinuate that the behavior of another Buddhist is gratuitous, salacious, unsavory and unwholesome. Phrasing it as a question may soften the charge a bit, but usually attempts to just shift the burden of proof to the accused, not the accuser.

It appears to me that the answer to the OP's question is that skillful replies are not required or necessarily encouraged.

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:00 pm

I really don't want to pour petrol onto what are clearly troubled waters Hoo, but what I have experienced since I joined the forum is a vigorous exchange if views, sometimes firmly stated but seldom crossing that line..and when it has the mods have reminded people of the rules of engagement.
What I have also seen is a tiny minority of members who have their own subjective and somewhat narrow view of of what constitutes Right Speech ( basically that it equals being "nice " at all times ) issuing periodic pleas for everyone to conform to what that tiny minority are comfortable with. All magnified by the fact that this is on online forum and as has been said devoid of much of what aids communication in the flesh, the tones, the body language, the facial expressions etc etc.
I really think forum life would be much simpler if we all stopped being offended by means of expression and concentrated instead on what people are saying.
I have just read the thread that clearly was the mother of this thread. It seems to me that much of the aggression is in the posts of those "defending" someone who stated that they had benefited from the response that they got... :roll: Fortunately we all adults here so I am sure that this particular storm in a teacup will subside...until the next time that a member takes offense at what they perceive to be the tone of another member...and concentrates on that perception rather than what is being said.
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby bodom » Sun Jul 04, 2010 2:53 pm

In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial (or: not connected with the goal), unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them...In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, unendearing & disagreeable to others, he does not say them...In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, but unendearing & disagreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them...In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be unfactual, untrue, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them...In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, unbeneficial, but endearing & agreeable to others, he does not say them...In the case of words that the Tathagata knows to be factual, true, beneficial, and endearing & agreeable to others, he has a sense of the proper time for saying them. Why? Because the Tathagata has sympathy for all.... MN 58
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 04, 2010 3:33 pm

Sanghamitta wrote:
Lazy_eye wrote:Hi Anna,

One thing to consider might be the expressive limitations of text-based communications such as message boards, e-mail, etc. It's a notorious problem with these types of media. In "real" life we depend greatly on facial expressions, tone and gesture to convey emotion or intention -- indeed, this dimension of communication can be more important than the literal content of what someone is saying.

But on the net, these signals are mostly absent. So what do we do? I think in many cases, we "fill in the gap" by projecting our own interpretations.

Someone might simply be aiming for clarity -- but the words get read instead as blunt, impatient or dismissive. Someone might be making an impersonal observation, but it becomes personalized by the reader. So I think if we are trying to be more skillful, it may help to keep this missing dimension in mind -- both when we post messages and when we read those by others.

Not that this is easy to do...

LE

Quite so. Some posts may strike us as jarring but could be a means by which another person grasps something more clearly. Some of my own most useful internet learning has come about when people have been very direct. We cannot dictate the tone of communication to others within the forum guidelines.
I happen to think that online forums are a useful but very limited way of communicating the Dhamma. They require skill not just in communicating , but in reading, in order to get the full gist of what is being communicated. The forum has guidelines that are sensitively followed by the moderators in my opinion.
I don't think that we need meta-discussions on how precisely to address each other in addition to the existing guidelines.
Lets just concentrate on our own posts being within forum guidelines and to the point, and allow the moderators to do the police work.



We cannot dictate the tone of communication to others within the forum guidelines.


In the above quote you say we can't dictate the tone, but it's not about dictating the tone at all.

You know that we can't change others, what we can only change ourselves.

Any thoughts about a topic therefore benefit the own progress and are never meant to put down or dominate others, only to think about some things a bit deeper, and that is voluntary, as is the participation in topics that we deem unnecessary.

I don't think that we need meta-discussions on how precisely to address each other in addition to the existing guidelines. Lets just concentrate on our own posts being within forum guidelines and to the point, and allow the moderators to do the police work.


Please be so kind and read my OP; and my explanation to Retro as well, who also took it as personal venting or complaining, while it's intended to be an impersonal general Dhamma debate, and I'm sure you didn't want to diss that as 'meta discussion', right?

:anjali:

:focus:
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:07 pm

Hoo wrote:
...I understand the gist of your concerns, but isn't there a point at which complaining about others and their speech becomes a little gratuitous, salacious, unsavoury and unwholesome in itself?...


Well, I think it's time for another year-long vacation from this place (hold your applause, please). I don't think I"ve ever seen one Buddhist insinuate that the behavior of another Buddhist is gratuitous, salacious, unsavory and unwholesome. Phrasing it as a question may soften the charge a bit, but usually attempts to just shift the burden of proof to the accused, not the accuser.


Dear Hoo. :hug: ty. (and also to Kim, who also said something against it.)

I hadn't looked up "gratuitous, salacious, unsavory" but now I did. (I'm not a Native speaker)

In all things that may be challenging, I keep this in mind:

"Never put on a shoe that doesn't fit."(One of the first teachings of my teacher)

"If someone points, keep in mind that he may be pointing back at himself." 8-)

Dhammapada:
124
If there's no wound on the hand, that hand can hold poison. Poison won't penetrate where there's no wound. There's no evil for those who don't do it.


No worries, dear, :hug: and hang out, please.

Anna :anjali:
Last edited by Annapurna on Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:12 pm

As I am not a 14 year old I am only guess what "dissing" means from context. Its not an expression used in standard English.
I am absolutely not going to become embroiled in a meta- discussion about meta- discussions.

I think that we all should take responsibility for our own posts, and leave the style and manner of other peoples out of the discussion. Lets concentrate on the content.
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 04, 2010 4:53 pm

Neither am I 14, lol. It's quite common in older ones as well.

To diss is simply short for 'dismiss',- or disrespect- and can even be found in on-line dictionaries.

Again, this topic here is not about forum rules, therefore not meta, it's about the Dhamma, which is not meta.

ok?

:smile:
Last edited by Annapurna on Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
http://www.schmuckzauberei.blogspot.com/

Sanghamitta
Posts: 1614
Joined: Wed Jul 29, 2009 9:21 am
Which number is larger than 1000 and less than 1002: 6
Location: By the River Thames near London.

Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Sanghamitta » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:17 pm

No I did not misunderstand. By any definition this is a meta- discussion. In other words a discussion about discussion.
I repeat lets all take responsibility for our own posts.
Let us address the CONTENT of other peoples posts. The points they are making. What they are communicating. lets not get bogged down with telling others HOW they should post. Lets trust the moderators to address any inappropriate posts.
Lets not turn this valuable resource into a social networking site , lets use it to deepen our knowledge of Buddhadhamma. And not attempt to influence the way other people communicate or learn.
if something is not to our taste , then read something else, not set ourselves up as class prefects.

BTW the reason I referred to "14 year olds" is because " dissing" is teenage argot.
Now can we all discuss Buddhadhamma ?
The going for refuge is the door of entrance to the teachings of the Buddha.

Bhikku Bodhi.

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Re: How do we skillfully reply to others, esp. beginners?

Postby Annapurna » Sun Jul 04, 2010 5:23 pm

Again, this topic here is not about forum rules, therefore not meta, it's about the Dhamma, which is not meta.

ok?

The Buddha talked about right speech and skillful conversation:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/ptf/dham ... index.html

You DO misunderstand, if you call sutthas meta discussion.






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