Celibacy

An open and inclusive investigation into Buddhism and spiritual cultivation

Re: Celebacy

Postby manas » Sun Jan 09, 2011 9:48 pm

imaginos wrote:Well, celebacy is definitely not for everyone.
Whatever you do, I hope you make spiritual breakthrough with your practice routine.
In Metta.

Hi Imaginos,
thank you so much for your kind supportiveness. I have actually had a LONG break from properly trying to abstain from orgasm. I found that the journey got too gut wrenching. I've got enough emotional pain already.

Ironically (or maybe it's no coincidence?) I log in here after ages and find your posts. I decided recently to have another go at practicing a bit of freedom from enslavement to the big O. I've now abstained from orgasm for about four days, and the 'burning' is here; sex desire isn't just this mental longing, it's not just in my groin area, there is a tingling spread throughout my whole darn body.

I'm not complaining this time, nor asking for sympathy, cos this is EVERY normal man's lot in life. Lol. But I have an observation. We get a choice of how to suffer. Endure the pain of mindfully watching your body burn with lust; or endure the pain of being so depleted of brain juice that you can hardly muster the mindfulness to really penetrate anything deeply, because all of your energy just shot out of your penis. I'm sorry to be so blunt.

I'm currently doing the former. 'Burning, burning..."

I'm not making any predictions as to how long I will last. Lol I'm just an average guy. Either way it's going to be tough. "Choose your pain" as I said before.

Mettafully. :)
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Re: Celebacy

Postby Kenshou » Sun Jan 09, 2011 10:17 pm

Keep your determination, Manasikara! There's no quick fix for this one. Well, there is, but you wouldn't like it.

You are an ox at the yoke, being whipped around by that desire. You don't want to put up with that crap, tell it to buzz off, you've got better things to do. Be stubborn, don't give Mara the pleasure of engaging that craving, and it will pass.

But of course it's easier said than done and it will probably need to be "overcome" over and over in the course of the day... enjoy.
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Re: Celebacy

Postby nobody12345 » Mon Jan 10, 2011 11:00 am

manasikara wrote:
imaginos wrote:Well, celebacy is definitely not for everyone.
Whatever you do, I hope you make spiritual breakthrough with your practice routine.
In Metta.

Hi Imaginos,
thank you so much for your kind supportiveness. I have actually had a LONG break from properly trying to abstain from orgasm. I found that the journey got too gut wrenching. I've got enough emotional pain already.

Ironically (or maybe it's no coincidence?) I log in here after ages and find your posts. I decided recently to have another go at practicing a bit of freedom from enslavement to the big O. I've now abstained from orgasm for about four days, and the 'burning' is here; sex desire isn't just this mental longing, it's not just in my groin area, there is a tingling spread throughout my whole darn body.

I'm not complaining this time, nor asking for sympathy, cos this is EVERY normal man's lot in life. Lol. But I have an observation. We get a choice of how to suffer. Endure the pain of mindfully watching your body burn with lust; or endure the pain of being so depleted of brain juice that you can hardly muster the mindfulness to really penetrate anything deeply, because all of your energy just shot out of your penis. I'm sorry to be so blunt.

I'm currently doing the former. 'Burning, burning..."

I'm not making any predictions as to how long I will last. Lol I'm just an average guy. Either way it's going to be tough. "Choose your pain" as I said before.

Mettafully. :)

'Choose your pain' sounds like a good summary of our existence.
No matter who we are, no matter how fortunate we maybe, the essence of our existence is pain/suffering/Dukkha.
And sensual craving is something we have to bear/suffer until we reach the stage of Anagami.
Hang in there.
Everything takes time.
Even if you can't handle it perfectly, all the attempts and struggles are not in vain in a long run.
We are fighting the war with Mara so it can't be easy.
It's a miserable situation but the Deathless is a goal worth all the trouble.
In Metta.
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Re: Celebacy

Postby manas » Mon Jan 10, 2011 9:20 pm

Kenshou wrote:Keep your determination, Manasikara! There's no quick fix for this one. Well, there is, but you wouldn't like it.

You are an ox at the yoke, being whipped around by that desire. You don't want to put up with that crap, tell it to buzz off, you've got better things to do. Be stubborn, don't give Mara the pleasure of engaging that craving, and it will pass.

But of course it's easier said than done and it will probably need to be "overcome" over and over in the course of the day... enjoy.


Hi kenshou, I appreciate the reply, but you've got me curious...what was that 'quick fix' you said that I wouldn't like? I take it you were not referring to contemplation of the repusive aspects of the body, but something a bit more, shall we say, 'cutting edge' ? :lol:

I don't mind putting my hand up anymore as someone struggling with sex craving. I now realize how self-indulgent it was when I shed so many tears about it, because it isn't just 'my' struggle at all. It's a problem for almost everyone I know. From lonely single men up late on the internet, to married men working damn hard for it, to guys who 'play the field' risking STD's, and even worse feigning affection for the sake of sex. It's all a big mess, but I'm not alone! I guess sex is a problem for everyone except those anagamis...;)
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Re: Celebacy

Postby Moth » Tue Jan 11, 2011 2:24 am

I have been using this technique for a few months and it has been working well (to quit masturbation). I'm using a Go board, but you can use anything really, to keep track of each day I am celibate. Each day I keep this precept I put a white stone on the board, however if I fail then I remove all the stones and am back to square one. At first I was able to build it up to a week, then I failed. After that two weeks, then failure, then three weeks, then a month, etc. Looking at a perfect month of white stones is something that feels very good, and further hinders me from throwing it all away just to watch pornography. Ultimately what helped me the most was failing. I once made it a month and then gave in and afterwards felt so awful, so shameful, that even recollecting that moment brings an end to my lust. Each failure feels worse and worse until the (false) pleasure of masturbation simply does not logically compare to the suffering that results as a consequence.

The key to success is stopping lustful thoughts at their root. All sexual acts are rooted in the mind and its fairly easy to witness how they arise. Think of it like this: Perhaps you see some external form that triggers the beginning of a lustful state, or perhaps you are daydreaming and your thoughts begin to lead towards sexual fantasy. At this stage the lust is like a seed sprouting, it is easy to walk away from. The moment you recognize this stage, the moment you recognize lust, you must walk away from it otherwise it will continue to grow. Say you entertain the thought, let it develop thinking it won't lead to anything. Now it has grown into a plant, an enticing, intoxicating plant that draws in your attention. Still, though it is more difficult, you can walk away. If, however, you continue to nurture it, it will quickly grow into a tree, then a forest of trees, and before you know it you're trapped, there's no way out--except through orgasm. Thus, it is crucial not to entertain lustful thoughts, and not to dwell, even for a moment, in states of arousal.

Eventually, once you are away from it for awhile, you become peaceful, serene, much like it felt to be a kid, and the joy of celibacy becomes far more valuable than the sensual pleasure of lust. The idea is not to restrain your actions, this solves nothing. The idea is to restrain your mind. You must work with your thoughts, discarding all lustful ones, recognizing "this will lead to my suffering, the suffering of others, and the suffering of both. This will lead me away from Nibbana." Do not identify with your thoughts, watch them arise and cease remembering always, "this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself."

So ultimately these are the four things that helped me: 1) Pride in my accomplishment, 2) The shame of failure, 3) Restraint in my thought, 4) The joy of celibacy. I hope this helps.
Last edited by Moth on Sun Jan 16, 2011 3:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Celebacy

Postby nobody12345 » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:02 am

Moth wrote:I have been using this technique for a few months and it has been working well (to quit masturbation). I'm using a Go board, but you can use anything really, to keep track of each day I am celibate. Each day I keep this precept I put a white stone on the board, however if I fail then I remove all the stones and am back to square one. At first I was able to build it up to a week, then I failed. After that two weeks, then failure, then three weeks, then a month, etc. Looking at a perfect month of white stones is something that feels very good, and further hinders me from throwing it all away just to watch pornography. Ultimately what helped me the most was failing. I once made it a month and then gave in and afterwards felt so awful, so shameful, that even recollecting that moment brings an end to my lust. Each failure feels worse and worse until the (false) pleasure of masturbation simply does not logically compare to the suffering that results as a consequence.

The key to success is stopping lustful thoughts at their root. All sexual acts are rooted in the mind and its fairly easy to witness how they arise. Think of it like this: Perhaps you see some external form that triggers the beginning of a lustful state, or perhaps you are daydreaming and your thoughts begin to lead towards sexual fantasy. At this stage the lust is like a seed sprouting, it is easy to walk away from. The moment you recognize this stage, the moment you recognize lust, you must walk away from it otherwise it will continue to grow. Say you entertain the thought, let it develop thinking it won't lead to anything. Now it has grown into a plant, an enticing, intoxicating plant that draws in your attention. Still, thought it is more difficult, you can walk away. If, however, you continue to nurture it, it will quickly grow into a tree, then a forest of trees, and before you know it you're trapped, there's no way out--except through orgasm. Thus, it is crucial not to entertain lustful thoughts, and not to dwell, even for a moment, in states of arousal.

Eventually, once you are away from it for awhile, you become peaceful, serene, much like it felt to be a kid, and the joy of celibacy becomes far more valuable than the sensual pleasure of lust. The idea is not to restrain your actions, this solves nothing. The idea is to restrain your mind. You must work with your thoughts, discarding all lustful ones, recognizing "this will lead to my suffering, the suffering of others, and the suffering of both. This will lead me away from Nibbana." Do not identify with your thoughts, watch them arise and cease remembering always, "this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself."

So ultimately these are the four things that helped me: 1) Pride in my accomplishment, 2) The shame of failure, 3) Restraint in my thought, 4) The joy of celibacy. I hope this helps.

Dear Moth.
Thank you so much for the wise advice.
Your approach is very thoughtful and well constructed.
It's a great gain for you (and for us as well) that you are making a big progress.
:bow:
Metta.
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Re: Celibacy

Postby ground » Tue Jan 11, 2011 3:55 am

Bhikkhus, when one attends carelessly, unarisen sensual desire arises and arisen sensual desire increases and expands ...
Bhikkhus, when one attends carefully, the unarisen enlightenment factor of mindfulness arises and the arisen enlightenment factor of mindfulness goes to fulfilment by development ...
SN46.35 (transl. by Bhikkhu Bodhi)




Kind regards
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Re: Celebacy

Postby shjohnk » Sat Jan 15, 2011 3:04 pm

EricJ wrote:
thereductor wrote:One last piece of advice: if you masturbate, don't fantasize during the act. I've found that this works well for separating the tactile pleasures of sex from the other pleasures derived from the other sense facilities (ie -- eye, ear, nose, taste). It kind of drives a wedge into the lusty though processes.

Good luck.
I also find it helpful to [nonjudgmentally] notice how quickly the pleasure dissipates and how overrated it actually is. Sexuality, seems to me, to be a really drawn-out process based on some sort of expectation, resulting in a sensation which is underwhelming when compared to your idealized version of it. This observance engenders this thought in connection to sexual pleasure: "well, what was the point of that?" Sometimes, apathy is more effective than active resistance.

In the meantime, I try to keep in mind that sexual pleasure is something which is overcome gradually, as defilements are dismantled and the compounded and unsatisfactory nature of these sensations is realized. This thought has helped me to reign in some of my youthful sexual energy. :P

Regards,
Eric



I agree with both of you that the 'act' is oe we overrate and the actuality is underwhelming. The problem seems to be that the human (male????) mind seems preset to use every unmindful moment to fuel the fire so to speak :jumping: It's this 'super-heated' nature of sexual desire that is the addictive part, at least for me.

I think sometimes it's better to 'let it out' before the fantasies take control of your mind and you end up wasting ages getting horny. Just go and have a mechanical wank or bonk, realise how actually unfulfilling it all is, and then get back to mindfulness Hopefully the addiction will reduce as the practice grows :jedi:
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Re: Celebacy

Postby Strive » Sat Jan 15, 2011 6:58 pm

Moth wrote:I have been using this technique for a few months and it has been working well (to quit masturbation). I'm using a Go board, but you can use anything really, to keep track of each day I am celibate. Each day I keep this precept I put a white stone on the board, however if I fail then I remove all the stones and am back to square one. At first I was able to build it up to a week, then I failed. After that two weeks, then failure, then three weeks, then a month, etc. Looking at a perfect month of white stones is something that feels very good, and further hinders me from throwing it all away just to watch pornography. Ultimately what helped me the most was failing. I once made it a month and then gave in and afterwards felt so awful, so shameful, that even recollecting that moment brings an end to my lust. Each failure feels worse and worse until the (false) pleasure of masturbation simply does not logically compare to the suffering that results as a consequence.

The key to success is stopping lustful thoughts at their root. All sexual acts are rooted in the mind and its fairly easy to witness how they arise. Think of it like this: Perhaps you see some external form that triggers the beginning of a lustful state, or perhaps you are daydreaming and your thoughts begin to lead towards sexual fantasy. At this stage the lust is like a seed sprouting, it is easy to walk away from. The moment you recognize this stage, the moment you recognize lust, you must walk away from it otherwise it will continue to grow. Say you entertain the thought, let it develop thinking it won't lead to anything. Now it has grown into a plant, an enticing, intoxicating plant that draws in your attention. Still, thought it is more difficult, you can walk away. If, however, you continue to nurture it, it will quickly grow into a tree, then a forest of trees, and before you know it you're trapped, there's no way out--except through orgasm. Thus, it is crucial not to entertain lustful thoughts, and not to dwell, even for a moment, in states of arousal.

Eventually, once you are away from it for awhile, you become peaceful, serene, much like it felt to be a kid, and the joy of celibacy becomes far more valuable than the sensual pleasure of lust. The idea is not to restrain your actions, this solves nothing. The idea is to restrain your mind. You must work with your thoughts, discarding all lustful ones, recognizing "this will lead to my suffering, the suffering of others, and the suffering of both. This will lead me away from Nibbana." Do not identify with your thoughts, watch them arise and cease remembering always, "this is not me, this is not mine, this is not myself."

So ultimately these are the four things that helped me: 1) Pride in my accomplishment, 2) The shame of failure, 3) Restraint in my thought, 4) The joy of celibacy. I hope this helps.

Thanks alot for this friend, Imma give this a try!
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Dhamma practised well brings happiness;
Truth is really the sweetest of tastes;
One living by wisdom they say lives best."--Bhikkhu Bodhi's Samyutta Nikaya, Sagathavagga verse 853
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