Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby retrofuturist » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:36 am

That's an incredibly complicated way to explain cetana, imo.

Metta,
Retro. :)
If you have asked me of the origination of unease, then I shall explain it to you in accordance with my understanding:
Whatever various forms of unease there are in the world, They originate founded in encumbering accumulation. (Pārāyanavagga)


Exalted in mind, just open and clearly aware, the recluse trained in the ways of the sages:
One who is such, calmed and ever mindful, He has no sorrows! -- Udana IV, 7


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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:51 am

Virgo wrote:
I will try to answer it like this. We make "choices" all the time. So, conventionally, yes there are choices... however, there is not a doer or a person to be found.
You were, then, wrong to say there was no choice. So, we can do what is necessary for the cultivation of insight by the choices we make, such as practicing meditation.

Therefore no doer makes "choices". . . . and so on.
All very nice, and it is good to see that you agree that we do make choices which can lead to awakening. We can try to impersonalize it by this complicated Abdhidhamma language, but the reality is that we use, more than anything else, conventional language, which is the basis of how we see and interact with the world. The teachings of the Buddha as found in the suttas, which is not less true than the Abhidhamma, is centered around gaining insight into the very nature of the self that we imagine that we are. The use of the precepts, the cultivation of mindfulness and concentration, such things as giving and compassion all give us a basis for insight into our self.

While an Abhidhamma approach may be sufficient for awakening and uselful for some, it not necessary for awakening. As my signature says: "This being is bound to samsara, karma [choice] is his means for going beyond." - SN I, 38.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 3:54 am

mikenz66 wrote:Hi Kevin,
Virgo wrote:This is the book you claim your teachers represent. Read it and see if it is so.

It's a little pointless to keep telling people to study texts that they have already, and have already offered explanations to your objections. Clearly you understand these texts, and the teachings of a number of teachers over the past century or so, in a different way from many (most?) others.

I'm a little confused about your current arguments. I understand (but don't accept) the standard Khun Sujin students' view about development not being possible and that the texts don't contain "instructions". But from your posts here: http://dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5154 you seem to have dropped that view, so it's no longer clear to me what exactly your objections are. They now seem to to with subtle differences over how one interprets the instructions.

Mike


If they have read them, they should understand each individual aggregate and how each of them should be regarded. Each aggregate should be regarded in a specific way according to Vsm. It never says one should focus on hearing as it arises, or any other object when developing wisdom. It says hearing should be understood and regarded in a certain way. Essentially Vsm details the development of wisdom first by saying that there is no specific meditation method that can cause the vipassana insight knowledges to arise; however, that one should understand certain things intellectually while having sila and samadhi to help condition higher wisdom (and that the higher wisdom will only happen if the accumulations are there). First it describes understanding the aggregates. It details each aggregate so you understand them each in a detailed way and shows how each aggregate should be regarded differently by the person (each in its own certain specific way). After one does that then it explains that then one should understand by way of sense bases and says precisely how one should accomplish this. And so on, eventually ending in Dependent Origination. Again it says there is no technique to bring about wisdom but that one should clarify about these things and view and understand them correctly, which refines conceptual wisdom. It is clearly about understanding and regarding things in a certain way, intellectually (and the same goes for the Commy to the Satipatthana Sutta which I have asked people to take a closer look at too). It says one should do this while having sila and having a samattha subject of meditation. It says that concentration from samattha can be a helping support for wisdom.

My view is more in line with the Vsm now, I feel. I still think, as per the Vsm, that one can't cause wisdom on a deep level to come up, but that one can develop Right Understanding on the conceptual level about dhammas to help condition wisdom (in the way the Vsm teaches). Again, this helps but it also depends on accumulations from doing this in past lives. That is why one person attains nibbana a week after hearing the dhamma and one attains after 70 years, even though they both hear the same dhamma. This is not much different from how Khun Sujin teaches the development of wisdom, Mike. She does tell people that they should hear dhamma, listen to it, discuss it, and try to understand it conceptually as much as possible. Also, that people should try and think in terms of mental states, and urges people to also learn details about dhammas. The Vsm. is very much the same, except it shows one should learn about the aggregates first. That one should learn them one at a time and review them. One should know how to regard each aggregate in its own way. Then it says one should do so by Sense bases.. then this way.. then another way, and so on, reviewing. In that regard it is very similar but a bit different to how Khun Sujin teaches. I mean she teaches about the same aggregates and so on. It also says though, that one should intentionally practice sila and samattha, wether you reach jhana or not. It states that this can help condition wisdom. Sujin disagrees that these two things (sila and samattha) can be intentionally developed . She takes the approach that if they arise they arise, if they don't they don't, by conditions. I think she takes the part about not being able to cause higher wisdom to arise too far and thinks that it means that one cannot cause the wisdom that naturally refrains from sila to arise, so that one should not practice sila and so on (same for samattha). This is as far as I understand. Please forgive any mistakes. Have a nice day.

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:03 am

retrofuturist wrote:That's an incredibly complicated way to explain cetana, imo.

Metta,
Retro. :)
There was a posting a few minutes ago in response to your comment that was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. It said simply: Devil's in the details. No truer words spoken.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:10 am

Virgo wrote: Sujin disagrees that these two things (sila and samattha) can be intentionally developed.
Of course they can be developed, which is the purpose of the precepts and the choice to cultivate them, and it is so of concentration. If one does not do anything, sila and calm will never arise.

She takes the approach that if they arise they arise, if they don't they don't, by conditions. I think she takes the part about not being able to cause higher wisdom to arise too far and thinks that it means that one cannot cause the wisdom that naturally refrains from sila to arise, so that one should not practice sila and so on (same for samattha). This is as far as I understand. Please forgive any mistakes. Have a nice day.

Kevin
Nice to see that you disagree with your teacher, assuming that you are portraying her position accurately. The bottom line is that the Buddha's teachings are about the choices we have in bringing to an end to our dukkha.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:13 am

tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:That's an incredibly complicated way to explain cetana, imo.

Metta,
Retro. :)
There was a posting a few minutes ago in response to your comment that was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. It said simply: Devil's in the details. No truer words spoken.

Yeah I was going to post it again. It's true Retro... it is all just cetana, which is not-self. I agree fully. That is a good explanation indeed.

Nevertheless, I tried to explain it using some details since everybody was asking me about it. I hope I did OK.
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:17 am

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
retrofuturist wrote:That's an incredibly complicated way to explain cetana, imo.

Metta,
Retro. :)
There was a posting a few minutes ago in response to your comment that was deleted almost as soon as it was posted. It said simply: Devil's in the details. No truer words spoken.

Yeah I was going to post it again. It's true Retro... it is all just cetana, which is not-self. I agree fully. That is a good explanation indeed.

Nevertheless, I tried to explain it using some details since everybody was asking me about it. I hope I did OK.

Devil's in the details is probably not the expressioon you would want to use, though I think it is appropriate:

The slang term “the devil is in the details” has a number of different senses. All of the meanings for the term boil down to the fact that it is often the small details of something which make it difficult or challenging. These details can prolong a task, or foil an otherwise straightforward dealing. Like many proverbs which involve the devil, it is meant to sound a note of caution. It may also be used to excuse or explain the obfuscation of an otherwise very simple project or task. - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-the-d ... s-mean.htm
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:28 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: Sujin disagrees that these two things (sila and samattha) can be intentionally developed.
Of course they can be developed, which is the purpose of the precepts and the choice to cultivate them, and it is so of concentration. If one does not do anything, sila and calm will never arise.


I agree.
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote: She takes the approach that if they arise they arise, if they don't they don't, by conditions. I think she takes the part about not being able to cause higher wisdom to arise too far and thinks that it means that one cannot cause the wisdom that naturally refrains from sila to arise, so that one should not practice sila and so on (same for samattha). This is as far as I understand. Please forgive any mistakes. Have a nice day.


Nice to see that you disagree with your teacher, assuming that you are portraying her position accurately. The bottom line is that the Buddha's teachings are about the choices we have in bringing to an end to our dukkha.


*Intentionally* should have been added. As in: "I think she takes the part about not being able to cause higher wisdom to arise too far and thinks that it means that one cannot cause the wisdom that naturally refrains from sila to arise, so that one should not practice sila *intentionally* and so on.

I think I have the part about sila right. I stuided with Ajahn for months in Bkk. Every weekend I went to the center for the two hour (or longer) talk. On weekdays I got coffee with Robert, Ivan, and others and discussed Dhamma. I know that I have the part about samattha right. Ajahn feels that samattha cannot be intentionally developed, that only people with very high accumulations can develop it and that it sort of naturally arises or happens for them.

I think we can practice sila and samattha. I also think we can contemplate things the way they are said to be contemplated in the Visuddhimagga. I think all this is a support for the insight knowledges and nibbana to arise, however, I think that without accumulation of Parami developed prior, it just won't arise. Some people heard the dhamma and penetrated, others had to practice for months or years before they did-- accumulations.

All the best,

Kevin
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:29 am

tiltbillings wrote:Devil's in the details is probably not the expressioon you would want to use, though I think it is appropriate:

The slang term “the devil is in the details” has a number of different senses. All of the meanings for the term boil down to the fact that it is often the small details of something which make it difficult or challenging. These details can prolong a task, or foil an otherwise straightforward dealing. Like many proverbs which involve the devil, it is meant to sound a note of caution. It may also be used to excuse or explain the obfuscation of an otherwise very simple project or task. - http://www.wisegeek.com/what-does-the-d ... s-mean.htm

Thanks Tilt. I used the term so that I could take a crack at myself..

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:33 am

Virgo wrote:
I think we can practice sila and samattha. I also think we can contemplate things the way they are said to be contemplated in the Visuddhimagga. I think all this is a support for the insight knowledges and nibbana to arise, however, I think that without accumulation of Parami developed prior, it just won't arise. Some people heard the dhamma and penetrated, others had to practice for months or years before they did-- accumulations.
Well, yeah. And if we do not choose to do something, nothing will happen. That is just basic Dhamma.

What I do not understand is your gripe against the Mahasi Sayadaw method and your nastiness towards Mahasi Sayadaw himself. His teaching is not saying anything different from what I have just quoted you as saying.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:36 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:
I think we can practice sila and samattha. I also think we can contemplate things the way they are said to be contemplated in the Visuddhimagga. I think all this is a support for the insight knowledges and nibbana to arise, however, I think that without accumulation of Parami developed prior, it just won't arise. Some people heard the dhamma and penetrated, others had to practice for months or years before they did-- accumulations.
Well, yeah. And if we do not choose to do something, nothing will happen. That is just basic Dhamma.

What I do not understand is your gripe against the Mahasi Sayadaw method and your nastiness towards Mahasi Sayadaw himself. His teaching is not saying anything different from what I have just quoted you as saying.


It sure is Tilt. I refer you to my post above: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5167&start=40#p80293

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 4:46 am

Virgo wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:
I think we can practice sila and samattha. I also think we can contemplate things the way they are said to be contemplated in the Visuddhimagga. I think all this is a support for the insight knowledges and nibbana to arise, however, I think that without accumulation of Parami developed prior, it just won't arise. Some people heard the dhamma and penetrated, others had to practice for months or years before they did-- accumulations.
Well, yeah. And if we do not choose to do something, nothing will happen. That is just basic Dhamma.

What I do not understand is your gripe against the Mahasi Sayadaw method and your nastiness towards Mahasi Sayadaw himself. His teaching is not saying anything different from what I have just quoted you as saying.


It sure is Tilt. I refer you to my post above: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5167&start=40#p80293

Kevin
I see what you are getting at here, but you, as usual, mischaracterize the Mahasi Sayadaw teachings. I find nothing in what you say against Mahasi Sayadaw convincing or even remotely reflecting his position accurately, as has been pointed out to you here by me and Mike repeatedly in detail.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Virgo » Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:33 am

tiltbillings wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
Virgo wrote:Well, yeah. And if we do not choose to do something, nothing will happen. That is just basic Dhamma.

What I do not understand is your gripe against the Mahasi Sayadaw method and your nastiness towards Mahasi Sayadaw himself. His teaching is not saying anything different from what I have just quoted you as saying.


It sure is Tilt. I refer you to my post above: http://www.dhammawheel.com/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5167&start=40#p80293

Kevin
I see what you are getting at here, but you, as usual, mischaracterize the Mahasi Sayadaw teachings. I find nothing in what you say against Mahasi Sayadaw convincing or even remotely reflecting his position accurately, as has been pointed out to you here by me and Mike repeatedly in detail.


I have written the reply post here: viewtopic.php?f=19&t=5154&p=80330#p80330

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Aug 01, 2010 6:01 am

Virgo wrote:. . .
I don't think you really know what "bare attention" means. First of all it is not a term used by Mahasi Sayadaw. It was coined by Ven Nyanaponika and he carefully defines it in his book HEART OF BUDDHIST MEDITATION, and Ven Bodhi defines it here: http://shamatha.org/sites/default/files ... ndence.pdf

Of course it is not going to be found in the commentary, but that does not mean that what is encompassed by the word is not an appropriate practice in terms of the Satipatthana Sutta. It is because it works. The labelling business has been dealt with at length, but you do not respond to either Mike's comments or my comments about it. Rather, you hold to a rather rigid notion that if it not spelled out in detail in a commentary then it is no good whatsoever. But never mind that the Satipatthana Sutta itself is worded in such a way that "labelling" could be easily derived from it. And then you continue to insist that the Mahasi Sayadaw practice tries to force insight by forcing attention upon an object, ignoring Mike's and my statements to the contrary, neither having ever been taught that way.

As Sujin admirers always says, understanding on the conceptual level, can lead to understanding on the experiential level naturally.
Maybe, but a conceptual level augmented by a carefully done practice such as taught by U Ba Khin and Mahasi Sayadaw will give a deeper experiential basis to the conceptual level, but the conceptual level only goes so far. it is with a direct seeing of the rise and fall of that which we experience, that which makes up our very mind/body process that insight arises. The Buddha was quite clear about this:

the perception of impermanence should be cultivated for the removal of the conceit 'I am.' For when one perceives impermanence, Meghiya, the perception of not-self is established. When one perceives not-self one reaches the removal of the conceit 'I am,' which is called Nibbana here and now." Ud 37 (4.1)

And here as well: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html These texts point to a type practice goes beyond the conceptual level, the sort of practice as outlined by U Ba Kin and Mahasi Sayadaw.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby Alex123 » Sun Aug 01, 2010 9:41 pm

Hello Kevin,

Virgo wrote:*Intentionally* should have been added. As in: "I think she takes the part about not being able to cause higher wisdom to arise too far and thinks that it means that one cannot cause the wisdom that naturally refrains from sila to arise, so that one should not practice sila *intentionally* and so on.


Without intention one cannot move a finger, nothing to say about doing good kamma and setting up conditions for panna. Any thought is the result of some form of intention, current or previous, wholesome, unwholesome or functional.


I fully agree that everything is conditioned. True. But this doesn't mean that actions, choices and intentions do not occur. They do. I am going to propose a
revolutionary idea that one of the causes for something to occur is the intention and decision to do it NOW.

I understand that one shouldn't have wrong views. But intention does NOT require views, much less wrong ones (though it is possible to do anything, including reading Dhamma books with wrong views).


What my concern is that phrases such as "nothing can be done", "there is no use trying to force kusala" may turn into self fulfilling prophecy or a condition that will make it hard to do more kusala. It also seems to border on the verge of denying the efficacy of actions.

With best wishes,

Alex
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:14 am

I think an important thing is to establish that there are various types
of concentration that are samma –right, and if we can agree on this
then to establish which are part of the noble eight-fold path
leading out samsara.

There are several suttas that give the 4 rupa jhanas as right
concentration, and these are very common in the suttas.. There are
also suttas where the eight mudane jhanas are given
Then there are many suttas like the following, which do not get cited
so often on internet forums:
Anguttara Nikaya IV.41
Samadhi Sutta
http://www.abhidhamma.org/an4-41.html

There is also the Digha Nikaya, sangiti sutta (sutta 33) page 488 of
Walshe
Four concentrative meditations (samadhi bhavana):
a. Leads to happiness here and now (dithadhamma-suka)
b. Gaining knowledge and vision (nana-dassana-patilabha)
c. Mindfulness and clear awareness (sati-sampajana)
d. The destruction of the corruptions. (asavanama khaya)
i. How does this practice*a*lead to happiness here and now? Here, a
monk practices the four Jhanas
ii. How does it*b*lead to the gaining of knowledge and vision?
Here, a monk attends to the perception of light, he fixes his mind
to the perception of day, by night as by day, by day as by night. In
this way, with a mind clear and unclouded, he develops a state of
mind that is full of brightness.
iii. How does it*c*lead to mindfulness and clear awareness? Here, a
monk knows feelings as they arise remain and vanish.
iv. How does this*d*practice to the destruction of corruptions?
Here, a monk abides in the contemplation of the rise and fall of the
five aggregates of grasping: "This is material form, this is its
arising, this is its ceasing; these are feelings, this is its
arising, this is its ceasing; this perception, this is its arising,
this is its ceasing; these are mental formations, this is its
arising, this is its ceasing; this is consciousness, this is its
arising, this is its ceasing."


Note that*b*is a special type of samatha meditation giving powers
of mundane vision.

Thus in these two suttas the four mundane jhanas are given a
specific category different from the types of samadhi which result
in sati-sampajana or the destrution of the defilements.

+++++++++
here is another sutta
http://www.vipassana.info/117-mahacattarisaka-e.htm
QUOTE
III. 2. 7.Mahaacattaariisakasutta.m-
(117) The Longer discourse on the forty
I heard thus.

Bhikkhus, what is noble right concentration together with the means
and accessories? It is right view, right thoughts, right speech,
right actions, right livelihood, right endeavour and right
mindfulness. Bhikkhus, the mind's one pointedness, endowed with
these seven factors is called noble right concentration together
with the means and the accessories.

No mention of the 4 jhanas here….


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
..
++++++++++++++++++++==


How is insight developed and nibbana attained:
From the digha nikaya
QUOTE
Sangiti sutta
"
The vimuttayatanam The 5 bases of deliverance:
XXV. "Five bases of deliverance; here
a. the teacher or a respected fellow disciple teaches a monk Dhamma.
And as he receives the teaching, he gains a grasp of both the spirit
and the letter of the teaching. At this, joy arises in him, and from
this joy, delight; and by this delight his senses are calmed, he
feels happiness as a result, and with this happiness his mind is
established [he attains nibban];
b. he has not heard it thus, but in the course of the teaching
Dhamma to others he has learnt it by heart as he has heard it, or
c. as he is chanting the Dhamma... or
d. ...when he applies his mind to the Dhamma, thinks and ponders
over it and concentrates his attention on it; or
e. When he has properly grasped some concentration sign, has well
considered it, applied his mind to it, and has well penetrated it
with wisdom. At this, joy arises in him; and from this joy, delight,
and by this delight his senses are calmed, he feels happiness as a
result, and with this happiness his mind is established.


Notice the first 4 ways of liberation do not mention gaining mundane
jhana.
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 02, 2010 10:42 am

How then to develop that type of right concentartion that is particular to the sasana of the Buddha..

MAJJHIMA NIKAAYA III
(5.7) Mahaasa.laayatanikasutta.m.
149. The Longer Discourse on the six spheres

http://www.vipassana.info/149-mahasalayatanika-e.htm
To someone who learns and realizes, eye, forms, eye-consciousness,
eye contact and whatever feelings pleasant or unpleasant or neither
unpleasant nor pleasant born of eye contact, as they really are.
Attachment does not arise for eye, forms, eye-consciousness, eye
contact and whatever feelings pleasant or unpleasant or neither
unpleasant nor pleasant born of that eye contact. This one not
attached, unyoked and not deluded, abiding seeing the danger does
not accumulate in the five holding masses for the future. His
craving, interest and greed, to be here and there in the future,
cease. His bodily and mental troubles, anxiety and laments cease.
Further he experiences bodily and mental pleasantness. Whatever his
view, it becomes right view. Whatever his thoughts, they become
right thoughts. Whatever his speech it becomes right speech.
Whatever his actions, they become right actions. Whatever his
effort, it becomes right effort. Whatever his mindfulness, it
becomes right mindfulness. Whatever his concentration, it becomes
RIGHT CONCENTRATION.
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 02, 2010 11:46 am

Virgo wrote: [. I know that I have the part about samattha right. Ajahn feels that samattha cannot be intentionally developed, that only people with very high accumulations can develop it and that it sort of naturally arises or happens for them.

I Kevin

I would say that is a pretty big misrepresentation.

If she said that there is no self who can develop , does this mean that it can't be developed. Or if she says it is better to develop wisdom than any other type of kusala does this mean she ignores sila or samadhi.
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby robertk » Mon Aug 02, 2010 12:37 pm

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14009030/Phrases-on-Buddhism

Phrases on Buddhism Compiled by Sarah Abbott and Alan Weller
from discussions with Sujin Boriharnwanaket and Phra Dhammadhara (Alan Driver) in Sri Lanka

•If one does not realise yet that one has wrong understanding, it is imposible to develop right understanding.

•The beginning is understanding the characteristic of awareness correctly. •\

•Live alone with sati, aware of visual object as visual object.

•One takes subtle attachment for calmness because of lack of understanding of calmness.

•This moment is so real.

•Life is so short, so fragile. Get rid of attachment.

•Always burning with lobha, dosa, moha . . . renunciation with satipatthana. . .


1
•Right action is abstaining from wrong action. There must be awareness of a nama or rupa to be right action of the eightfold path.

•Seeing sees visible object. What is seen is not a person. We have attach- ment to individuals, but individuality has no separate characteristic.

•The understanding that begins to know conditioned realities is also con- ditioned. •Right understanding understands not a person or a Buddhist.

•The arising of any conditioned reality is dukkha because of its arising. If there is no arising, there is no dukkha. If there is no awareness of the reality now, how can one understand the absolute reality of dukkha? •

The arising happens because there is passing away of previous moments. Once there is no arising there can be total peace and calm. •Can you tell what is beyond this moment? •If there is no thinking of this or that concept, can there be concept at this moment? •

The game of life that tanha always wins. •

Don’t be a victim of the conceptual system, but the conqueror of your ignorance. •

. •You can have metta by accumulations, but is requires panna to see the value and develop it.

••Panna gives one a more sober, realistic view of life.

•Start with right beginning. Without right understanding, it cannot be

right beginning.

•Propagating wrong view is the most dangerous thing to do.

•Don’t force yourself to think it is the right time and right place for the arising of awareness, because awareness can arise anytime or place. Don’t limit it.

•If right understanding is well established, what about awareness now? •At the moment of developing right understanding, there is real rest no matter what one is doing. •Without satipatthana, there is always cling to self, always wanting the best for self, even wanting more understanding.

•The Buddha taught us to listen to dhamma, not people.
•Let go of desire and attachment for other objects that do not appear now.

When there’s awareness, there’s letting go. •The Buddha taught everyone to have kusala citta at any moment, at any level, because to have kusala citta at any moment is so helpful.

•Right understanding brings detachment. If there is even a little attach- ment, it hinders the progress of right understanding. •Samatha doesn’t get rid of concepts. •As understanding grows, it grows beyond the level of thinking of sammuti sacca and knows the difference between paramattha sacca and sammuti sacca instead of clinging to sammuti cacca and taking for self.


•We must be brave enough to study with panna any reality. We need to be brave to begin to study visible object as visible object.

•One doorway is never enough. Each doorway should be a check.

. •. •Attachment is only a conditioned moment. Attachment is like a trap or a bait. •One kills oneself and one’s heart by one’s attachment and ignorance. We are trapped, lured by attachment all the time. It’s truly poisonous.

•We are cut up with sammuti sacca when there is no awareness of thinking. •There are different conditions for different namas and rupas. With more understanding of different conditions you will see that there is no self. •It needs right understanding to know whether this moment is kusala or akusala.

•It is not in the texts, but is now at the moment of right understanding.
•When one thinks ‘I am aware’, it is not right awareness.
•When it is not right awareness, it cannot be accompanied by right under-

standing.

•Whenever right awareness arises, it is aware before there is time to think ‘I am aware’. •4
•When there is no awareness, no understanding, no learning, there is no developing or seeing realities as they are. •

It is very confusing if there is no understanding of the development of vipassana. •It is very natural in daily life, the teachings of the Buddha.

•One cannot get away from thinking of people, so in many suttas the Bud- dha taught many people to develop the four Brahma viharas.

•At the moment of considering someone’s death, there can be the condition for calmness instead of trying to force calmness by thinking of different objects.

•Does visual object appear as just visual object now? It cannot appear as visual object o moha.
•By developing vipassana one can see different levels of thinking, because there can be thinking before thinking in words or concepts. •

•One begins to see the difference between calmness at the moment of kusala and no calmness at the moment of akusala. •When right understanding grows, awareness also grows. •

•Nibbana does not arise.

•Citta goes all the time form moment to moment. It comes and goes all

the time in the way of kulala or akusala. Nibbana does not come and go.

•The growth of vipaassana must begin with detachment and go the way of detachment, because attachment is very subtle and always wins when there is no understanding.


•The purpose of the Satipatthana Sutta is to show that any object which is real can be the object of awareness. Otherwise this moment which is real cannot be known. •Learn to see dhamma as dhamma. •

Almost every object is an object of attachment when there is no develop- ment of understanding. •

The Buddha’s teaching is for practice, not just for reading or intellectual understanding.

•Right understanding knows everything correctly.

•Right understanding gradually eliminates attachment and ignorance and wrong view of self.


•One has to understand what is the right object of awareness first.

•When there is the idea of self with wrong view, it conditions other akusala.


. •Intellectual understanding should be the foundation, but if one thinks that it is enough, there is no development and it hinders the development of higher understanding because one does not understand there are more levels of higher understanding.

•It’s possible to have all the intellectual understanding but no understand- ing of the practice, like a blind man carrying a torch.


. . .
•When the monk abandons home life, there are more conditions for being

virtuous at the degree of being able to leave home.


•Any intellectual understanding cannot be clear.

Do we hope for result for me?

•One begins with detachment from the very beginning.


•Getting to know oneself better is the only way to really help others. If

one develops more metta, karuna, more understanding and a more sincere inclination to other people, one will see that what has been most helpful to oneself will be what is most helpful to others also. One understands oneself better.


•If metta is strong enough one will be concerned to help.

•If sati does not arise understanding cannot know which are the moments of sati and which are the moments without sati. •

The purpose should be right understanding.

•Be an island. . . depend on oneself, one’s own understanding which can eradicate one’s defilements.

. •Want to have conditions for the arising of satipatthana, waiting for the arising of satipatthana this is not the understanding of the development of sati. The moment of thinking it is not the moment of direct awareness.



•To know the difference between thinking and sati, there has to be sati.


•Attachment likes calmness so much that it clings immediately.

If one is not courageous enough, one clings to calmness for sure.

•At this moment of thinking one begins to see whether one thinks with

kusala or akusala. •
.

•Life is a dream. When one knows the citta that dreams one is awake.

.
•One cannot afford to be disinterested in reality.

At the moment of seeing visible object as visible object, there is no at-

tractiveness in visible object.
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Re: Samma samadhi: Sujin Boriharnwanaket

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Aug 02, 2010 4:01 pm

robertk wrote:How then to develop that type of right concentartion that is particular to the sasana of the Buddha..

MAJJHIMA NIKAAYA III
(5.7) Mahaasa.laayatanikasutta.m.
149. The Longer Discourse on the six spheres

http://www.vipassana.info/149-mahasalayatanika-e.htm
To someone who learns and realizes, eye, forms, eye-consciousness,
eye contact and whatever feelings pleasant or unpleasant or neither
unpleasant nor pleasant born of eye contact, as they really are.
Attachment does not arise for eye, forms, eye-consciousness, eye
contact and whatever feelings pleasant or unpleasant or neither
unpleasant nor pleasant born of that eye contact. This one not
attached, unyoked and not deluded, abiding seeing the danger does
not accumulate in the five holding masses for the future. His
craving, interest and greed, to be here and there in the future,
cease. His bodily and mental troubles, anxiety and laments cease.
Further he experiences bodily and mental pleasantness. Whatever his
view, it becomes right view. Whatever his thoughts, they become
right thoughts. Whatever his speech it becomes right speech.
Whatever his actions, they become right actions. Whatever his
effort, it becomes right effort. Whatever his mindfulness, it
becomes right mindfulness. Whatever his concentration, it becomes
RIGHT CONCENTRATION.
Yes. That is a nice summary of the U Ba Khin and Mahasi Sayadaw type practices.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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