difficult situation

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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:59 pm

SDC - yes - one will find all sorts of people in Buddhist (and other) centres. Using discernment skillfully is a must - what I colloquially call "going with your gut". If anything should 'smell' - I say run away - or - keep some distance. :soap:

Sometimes, however, we want something so badly (tanha - leading to uppadana) that we don't listen to that gut. Tanha and uppadana can get a person every time if they're not careful!

YFNA,

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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:10 am

Why thank you Dhamma Spoon - Asuras aren't always the nasties they're cracked up to be. But we doubt, we easily fall prey to ill will (sometimes for a righteous cause), and we don't appreciate tricksy folks.

As to wise - meh - I dunno about that - but as to practical - surely!

Hermione: "You're a great wizard, Harry"

Harry: "I'm not as good as you."

Hermione "Me?! Books and cleverness ..."

- Sorcerer's Stone - The flick

Blushingly,

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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:15 am

Vepacitta wrote:Sometimes, however, we want something so badly (tanha - leading to uppadana) that we don't listen to that gut.


Yessir.
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:16 am

dhamma_spoon wrote: Oh, one more thing, you are without any question very wise and practical, and I appreciate all the advice you have given ----


Maybe I should re-name my screen name to: The Agony Aunt or Dear Abby :jumping:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:20 am

SDC wrote:
dhamma_spoon wrote:I see that danger too -- the danger of biasedness. Yes, an unwholesome sanna (perception, label) CAN make the mind tend to "dwell" in a wrong (unwholesome) domain. Would you suggest that a) we develop positive sanna, or 2) we completely abandon sanna?


So funny that you say this. I was reviewing Venerable Punnaji's model for the paticca samuppada and reading some suttas in the SM and I was thinking a similar thought the other day as far as sanna is concerned. But that is another discussion.


DhammaSpoon: Thanks. I look forward to future discussion on sanna with you.

SDC : I know that fundamentally we do agree here but I am going to use different terminology. I seek to appreciate the Buddha, the teachings and those that follow. That appreciation leads me to practice and to start looking at the world a different way, which leads me to behave (sila) in a different way. That is what I focus on.

DS: My focus is the same. Sila supports Samadhi(concentration), and Samadhi supports Panna (wisdom, insight knowledge).

SDC : My behavior is slowly coming under control. With that I start to focus on more internal aspects. I try to not dwell on any negative states that arise in me for whatever reason (work, family, everyday hassles, etc.). Of course they do arise and some take longer then others to take my mind away from, but I stick to it.

DS: That practice is known as sense restraint (indriya samvara).
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html

SDC : As time goes on and I continue to practice in this way it becomes easier and easier. I fight my old unwholesome tendencies and they become weaker and weaker and are replace with more whole tendencies that I am trying to strengthen. Here in lies the point of this paragraph - I am starting to get rid of the behavior and thoughts that cause myself and others pain. So overall my goal is to be a good person with a calm mind. There is no thought of abandoning my ability to perceive and label, but to gradually move towards seeing things as they are so those labels don't hold any water. Agree? Disagree?

DS: Absolutely, I agree. Labels are just objects of consciousness; they don't interfere with virtue, concentration and understanding if we do not cling to them.

:stirthepot:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:25 am

Perhaps we should start a topic on restraint, wholesome behaviour, removal of the taints?
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Re: difficult situation

Postby SDC » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:33 am

dhamma_spoon wrote: :stirthepot:

Isn't you're arm tired yet?! :tongue:

Vepacitta wrote:Perhaps we should start a topic on restraint, wholesome behaviour, removal of the taints?


I'm down. I'll look for it tomorrow.

Good discussion everyone.
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:40 am

Vepacitta wrote:Perhaps we should start a topic on restraint, wholesome behaviour, removal of the taints?

Hi Asura Vepacitta -

Please do! Let me provide an excellent source of sutta that treats both wholesomeness and taints !

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html

"And what, friends, is the unwholesome, what is the root of the unwholesome, what is the wholesome, what is the root of the wholesome? ...

"When, friends, a noble disciple understands the taints, the origin of the taints, the cessation of the taints, and the way leading to the cessation of the taints, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

"And what are the taints, what is the origin of the taints, what is the cessation of the taints, what is the way leading to the cessation of the taints?

:meditate:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:45 am

SDC wrote:
dhamma_spoon wrote: :stirthepot:

Isn't you're arm tired yet?! :tongue:

Vepacitta wrote:Perhaps we should start a topic on restraint, wholesome behaviour, removal of the taints?


I'm down. I'll look for it tomorrow.

Good discussion everyone.


Hi, SDC and Asura -

Good point! Yes, I'm tired too (stirring the Dhamma pot for too long)!
Okay. Let's do it again tomorrow.

Regards,

:stirthepot: Dhamma_spoon
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Wholesome, taints and sense restraint

Postby dhamma_spoon » Thu Aug 12, 2010 8:47 pm

Vepacitta wrote:Perhaps we should start a topic on restraint, wholesome behaviour, removal of the taints?


Hi, Asura Vepacitta and all -

Thank you for the wholesome initiation. :soap:
Below I provide the necessary sutta background to assist us in this discussion.

1. Wholesome and Unwholesome

"Killing living beings is unwholesome; taking what is not given is unwholesome; misconduct in sensual pleasures is unwholesome; false speech is unwholesome; malicious speech is unwholesome; harsh speech is unwholesome; gossip is unwholesome; covetousness is unwholesome; ill will is unwholesome; wrong view is unwholesome. This is called the unwholesome.

"And what is the root of the unwholesome? Greed is a root of the unwholesome; hate is a root of the unwholesome; delusion is a root of the unwholesome. This is called the root of the unwholesome.

2. What are the taints?

"There are three taints: the taint of sensual desire, the taint of being and the taint of ignorance. With the arising of ignorance there is the arising of the taints. With the cessation of ignorance there is the cessation of the taints. The way leading to the cessation of the taints is just this Noble Eightfold Path; that is, right view, right intention, right speech, right action, right livelihood, right effort, right mindfulness and right concentration. [The Discourse on Right View ]
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .ntbb.html

3. Restraint of the Sense Faculties

"And how does one dwell in heedfulness? When a monk dwells with restraint over the faculty of the eye, the mind is not stained
with forms cognizable via the eye. When the mind is not stained, there is joy. There being joy, there is rapture. There being rapture, there is
serenity. There being serenity, he dwells in ease. The mind of one at ease becomes centered. When the mind is centered, phenomena
(dhammas) become manifest. When phenomena are manifest, one is classed simply as one who dwells in heedfulness.

"When a monk dwells with restraint over the ear... nose... tongue... body...

"When a monk dwells with restraint over the faculty of the intellect, the mind is not stained with ideas cognizable via the intellect. When the
mind is not stained, there is joy. There being joy, there is rapture. There being rapture, there is serenity. There being serenity, he dwells in ease. The mind of one at ease becomes centered. When the mind is centered, phenomena (dhammas) become manifest. When phenomena are manifest, one is classed simply as one who dwells in heedfulness.

"This is how one dwells in heedfulness."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html
[SN 35.97 Pamadaviharin Sutta: Dwelling in Heedlessness translated from the Pali by Thanissaro Bhikkhu]

Cheers,

Dhamma_spoon. :stirthepot:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:06 am

Hey Dhamma
Spoon - you put that post in the wrong thread - I opened up a new thread for this :D

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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Fri Aug 13, 2010 2:49 am

Hey Asura, -

Thank you for setting up a new thread for that topic, my friend.

Dhamma_spoon :woohoo:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby dhamma_spoon » Fri Aug 13, 2010 11:20 am

Vepacitta wrote:Hey Dhamma
Spoon - you put that post in the wrong thread - I opened up a new thread for this :D

V.


Hi, Vepacitta -

Where do I find that "new thread", friend?

:thanks:
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Re: difficult situation

Postby Vepacitta » Fri Aug 13, 2010 1:02 pm

Right here in the Dhammic Free-for-All

Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness
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