Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

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Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Vepacitta » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:53 am

Our conversation in "A Difficult Situation" became 're-conditioned' into a quack about wholesome behaviour, the taints, and generally, desires, grasping, sila, sanna and how to deal with unpleasant people, places and things. Which, actually, can be a 'difficult situation' How does one act wisely when dealing with annoying people? How does one restrain and control that mind - that "ever present constant "I" (Wallace Stevens) that we struggle with.

Dhamma Spoon thoughtfully provided a sutta as a basis for discussion:

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka%20...%20.ntbb.html

"And what, friends, is the unwholesome, what is the root of the unwholesome, what is the wholesome, what is the root of the wholesome? ...

"When, friends, a noble disciple understands the taints, the origin of the taints, the cessation of the taints, and the way leading to the cessation of the taints, in that way he is one of right view, whose view is straight, who has perfect confidence in the Dhamma and has arrived at this true Dhamma.

"And what are the taints, what is the origin of the taints, what is the cessation of the taints, what is the way leading to the cessation of the taints?

Otay kiddies - have at it. Rambly posts are welcome here :D

Right now going nighty-night on Mt. Meru,

D.
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby bodom » Thu Aug 12, 2010 12:58 am

Vepacitta wrote:How does one act wisely when dealing with annoying people?


Patience, equanimity and loving friendliness.

:anjali:
The heart of the path is SO simple. No need for long explanations. Give up clinging to love and hate, just rest with things as they are. That is all I do in my own practice. Do not try to become anything. Do not make yourself into anything. Do not be a meditator. Do not become enlightened. When you sit, let it be. When you walk, let it be. Grasp at nothing. Resist nothing. Of course, there are dozens of meditation techniques to develop samadhi and many kinds of vipassana. But it all comes back to this - just let it all be. Step over here where it is cool, out of the battle. - Ajahn Chah
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Goedert » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:12 am

:goodpost:

Wisdom is also needed.
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby m0rl0ck » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:03 am

Which, actually, can be a 'difficult situation' How does one act wisely when dealing with annoying people? How does one restrain and control that mind - that "ever present constant "I" (Wallace Stevens) that we struggle with.


This is a great question and has been on my mind lately and just to say that one uses equanimity wisdom etc presupposes that one has reached heights of moral development that i currently dont occupy.

I have had "spiritual" insights, i have experienced metta for my fellow beings, even despite their faults and stupidity. Yet in interaction with them, when the going gets bumpy, i have knee jerk mental responses that come into play. I can even see it happening, even when a part of me is thinking "this is not helping, shut up". I am even brusque with people at times and dont even really think about it till after its happend, its just a knee jerk response.

Who here doesnt do this?
"Even if you've read the whole Canon and can remember lots of teachings; even if you can explain them in poignant ways, with lots of people to respect you; even if you build a lot of monastery buildings, or can explain inconstancy, stress, and not-self in the most detailed fashion ... The only thing that serves your own true purpose is release from suffering.

"And you'll be able to gain release from suffering only when you know the one mind."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Kenshou » Thu Aug 12, 2010 5:31 am

I can relate to that. When dealing with obnoxious people, it's difficult to stop myself from zoning out and becoming uncooperative and unresponsive. Which doesn't help at all. At best I can muster up some equanimity, but it isn't usually easy.
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby dude » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:19 am

If there were no one around to annoy us, how would we train ourselves in the virtues of equanimity and forebearance?
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 12, 2010 6:51 am

dude wrote:If there were no one around to annoy us, how would we train ourselves in the virtues of equanimity and forebearance?


An interesting thought.
It seems to presuppose that the source of our misery, and liberation,are external to ourselves. When in fact, all our misery and our key to liberation, are found within ourselves. When someone annoys us, we are really just experiencing the dukkha arising from unpleasant dhammas and our habitual reactions to them. The other person is just sensory data impacting on our sense organs. All the annoying is going on within ourselves. Its the misery we inflict upon ourselves.
kind regards

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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby PeterB » Thu Aug 12, 2010 7:29 am

There are no annoying people. There is just annoyance. And as Ben says, thats in us.
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Vepacitta » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:04 pm

Ben wrote:
dude wrote:If there were no one around to annoy us, how would we train ourselves in the virtues of equanimity and forebearance?


An interesting thought.
It seems to presuppose that the source of our misery, and liberation,are external to ourselves. When in fact, all our misery and our key to liberation, are found within ourselves. When someone annoys us, we are really just experiencing the dukkha arising from unpleasant dhammas and our habitual reactions to them. The other person is just sensory data impacting on our sense organs. All the annoying is going on within ourselves. Its the misery we inflict upon ourselves.
kind regards

Ben


Yes Ben - I quite agree. However, saying that - intellectually knowing it - and being able to actually embody (mwaaa haaa) that are two very different things. For example, I have seen people on this board with very impressive knowlege of the suttas, the Pali grammar, etc. and yet their actions are ... "habitually reactive" to use your phrase. So are mine - of course - else I wouldn't use the Asura handle.

So, I'm not flaming here - I'm just making the point - how does one do this - in a practical manner? What have we noticed (or missed) in our practise?

YFNA,

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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Ben » Thu Aug 12, 2010 2:15 pm

Hi Vepacitta

Its a very good question and one that I would like to answer at some point at length. An answer that I hope will provide you with my perspective which is mainly practice derived. Unfortunately, its past midnight right now and I'm going to be flat out all day and night tomorrow. Sorry for 'doing a runner'! Perhaps sometime over the weekend I'll get time to pump out a reply. In the interim,perhaps some of our other members might be willing to share their knowledge and experiences with you.
kind regards

Ben
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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby Anicca » Thu Aug 12, 2010 3:29 pm

PeterB wrote:There are no annoying people. There is just annoyance. And as Ben says, thats in us.
If all people had an equanimious nature, i'd agree. People have qualities - good - bad - indifferent. It is a matter of us not letting their bad qualities become our bad qualities, getting their good qualities to be our good qualities. Why else would the Buddha speak so highly appropriate companionship? There are annoying people - but it is up to us to not let their annoyance become our annoyance. There are loving, considerate people - it is up to us to get their love and compassion to become our love and compassion.

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Re: Eradicating the Taints, Encouraging Wholesomeness

Postby dude » Fri Aug 13, 2010 4:39 am

Well, if you find it difficult to use it as an opportunity to train yourself, recognize the true aspect of the situation. The cause of your suffering and unpleasant feeling is not outside yourself. Thank the annoying person for causing you displeasure and helping you expiate the karma you created in the past.
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