nathan wrote:The conditional phenomena of which it was, is and ever will be composed is rather much more limited and ponderable.
And this is part of the point that folks like Ingram/Folk are missing. Their focus has been lured, so to speak, toward the vastness/infinite possibilities of being and becoming, ignoring, for the moment, the very root of the problem of dukkha
that Gotama was addressing. It's almost as though these people don't even get
(fully comprehend) the first noble truth.
nathan wrote:In respect to that immensity of available experience, my thought and attitude differs from Kenneth's inasmuch as I am focused on spiraling ever further out of the conditional universe, out of the deep and powerful currents of further ongoing experiential being and becoming and likewise away from and out of the various modes and forms of suffering that are bound up in it.
Precisely. Well stated. Although I would caution that the use of the term "conditional universe" could be taken ambiguously. Gotama's focus was not on universes per se
, but rather about one's perception
of phenomena. Best to leave out anything that might be taken to refer to the ontological and maintain focus on what matters in order to bring about the ending of personal suffering. Of course, I may be misreading what you have written, and what you meant to refer to were "conditioned dhammas
" rather than a "conditional universe." This is not to play down any conditional forces at play (cultural or social) in the existential universe that one may have to deal with.
nathan wrote:Most superficially this contrast is readily apparent in my complete lack of interest in 'integrating awakening with living in the world'. I haven't the slightest interest in finding 'my place' or 'a home' in this world or in any other.
Here is where I would caution people not
to carry these ideas too far. Why do I say this? Been there, done that. It doesn't work. Period.
I realize that this can be a very subjective area. But when looked at with right view, one essentially has no choice
but to "integrate awakening with living in the world." That is, unless one wants to end it right here, right now, after having achieved the highest realization. If this were the case, then Gotama never would have had
a teaching career, and you and I might never have learned what we have learned
from having been exposed to Buddhadhamma. I know that it can be an attractive idea, not to be ever bothered again by the existential in all its wide variety. But this doesn't mean that one should necessarily eschew the existential altogether. Just be careful to remain unattached. That is enough, and as well, that will be challenge enough for the rest of one's life.
This doesn't mean to imply that by doing so one might risk becoming re-attached to the existential. Only that unless one expects to end it all after having attained arahatta
, one has no choice but to integrate his personal understanding with that of living in the world. In doing so, one becomes a model of the efficacy of the training and in that way assists others in the world to aspire to the same or similar accomplishment.
"The gift of truth exceeds all other gifts" — Dhammapada, v. 354 Craving XXIV