Ingram, et al - "Hard Core Dharma" & claims of attainment

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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kc2dpt
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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby kc2dpt » Sat Mar 07, 2009 8:29 pm

- Peter


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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby Snowmelt » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:05 pm


nathan
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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby nathan » Sat Mar 07, 2009 11:47 pm

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby Snowmelt » Sun Mar 08, 2009 12:38 am


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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby nathan » Sun Mar 08, 2009 5:49 am

But whoever walking, standing, sitting, or lying down overcomes thought, delighting in the stilling of thought: he's capable, a monk like this, of touching superlative self-awakening. § 110. {Iti 4.11; Iti 115}

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Re: Dhamma book written by arahat?

Postby Snowmelt » Mon Mar 09, 2009 4:44 am

Thanks for the conversation, Nathan. :) Despite my adherence to the Tipitaka, I still found myself considering your point of view and questioning my own to a degree. It wouldn't do for me to get completely hidebound. :) So, thanks.

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acinteyyo
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Daniel M. Ingram

Postby acinteyyo » Sat Jan 16, 2010 8:20 am

Who knows David M. Ingram and his book ?
He calls himself an arahant. I read about 60 pages of his book and it's not bad. :reading:

What do you think about this guy?

best wishes, acinteyyo

edit: oh yes, his name is Daniel
Last edited by acinteyyo on Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
Thag 1.20. Ajita - I do not fear death; nor do I long for life. I’ll lay down this body, aware and mindful.

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tiltbillings
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Re: David M. Ingram

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:03 am


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jcsuperstar
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Re: David M. Ingram

Postby jcsuperstar » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:36 am

when i search i end up with nothing or this thread :computerproblem:
สัพเพ สัตตา สุขีตา โหนตุ

the mountain may be heavy in and of itself, but if you're not trying to carry it it's not heavy to you- Ajaan Suwat

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retrofuturist
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Re: David M. Ingram

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:40 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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mikenz66
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Re: David M. Ingram

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 9:59 am

I made some comments on this thread:
viewtopic.php?f=17&t=2986

As I said there, as far as I can tell, Daniel's advice agrees with the advice of my (Mahasi style) teachers, and my experience with that sort of practise. So, actually, nothing particularly radical, but very direct.

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Guy
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby Guy » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:11 am

Does anyone else think that a lay person claiming Arahantship is a bit dubious, or just me?
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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cooran
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:16 am

Hello all,

This thread on RobertK's website, Abhidhamma Vipassana, is interesting:

The thread mentions Mr. Ingram and people like him:
Arahants still exist?, or not.
http://www.abhidhamma.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=65

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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retrofuturist
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:19 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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cooran
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby cooran » Sat Jan 16, 2010 10:24 am

---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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mikenz66
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Jan 16, 2010 11:00 am

Personally I don't really care what Daniel claims to be. Other teachers I have experienced, read, or listened to, may or may not have some sort of attainments. I don't obsess about it. It seems pointless. I do know that my own teachers have experience with the things that come up for me, so they've clearly done some work on it...

Daniel's book collects together advice that I've mostly already heard elsewhere in a readily digestible (though sometimes annoyingly provocative) form. There are some useful little technical hints about how one might observed the three characteristics, which could have come right out of a talk by U Pandita, Patrick Kearney, etc. On a Mahasi or Goenka retreat you'll hear, if you pay attention, the exact same advice to: "Quit whining about your `stuff' and `just observe'". That's pretty much what my teachers will say (nicely) if I start conceptualising during a retreat interview.

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Mike

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Guy
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby Guy » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:27 pm

Hi Mike,

As a general rule I don't care either whether a teacher is enlightened or not, that's not really the issue I was raising, if what they teach is useful to my own practice then I will take what they say to heart and if not then I will discard it. However, if someone writes a book where on the front cover they claim to be an Arahant I don't think they are really doing their cause of teaching Dhamma (if that is their cause) any favours. Maybe my thinking is wrong, but wouldn't it be better to not claim Arahantship and just teach rather than risk having to prove it?

With Metta,

Guy
Four types of letting go:

1) Giving; expecting nothing back in return
2) Throwing things away
3) Contentment; wanting to be here, not wanting to be anywhere else
4) "Teflon Mind"; having a mind which doesn't accumulate things

- Ajahn Brahm

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David N. Snyder
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Jan 16, 2010 1:56 pm

Image




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Ben
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby Ben » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:27 pm

Hi Accinteyo
The claim of arahantship leads me to consider whatever Ingram says with a grain of salt.
As Mike has indicated, Ingram may indeed be teaching standard Burmese Theravada, but i would hesitate to rely on it.
metta

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

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tiltbillings
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Re: Daniel M. Ingram

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Jan 16, 2010 2:32 pm

Type

Ingram

into the search function.

About three pages come back

Ven D's comment:

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=843&p=10475&sid=6c2bfe1038531a1b5a30c79ae0c45caf#p10475

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=843


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