Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

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Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Satori » Sun Oct 10, 2010 2:26 pm

Did he?
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:29 pm

Satori wrote:Did he?


My understanding is that he neither rejected them or accepted them. He saw clearly what was of benefit and what was not. This clear seeing comes from and is not different than seeing the true nature of reality. With this vision he was able to skillfully help those who had faith in the Vedas to reject those ideas which were harmful or at least not that helpful.


Metta

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:34 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:36 pm

Hanzze wrote:Did you mean the spiritual or the worldly? Sorry if my question is caused by lacking of my knowledge.



Both
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 4:28 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Satori » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:05 pm

gabrielbranbury wrote:
Satori wrote:Did he?


My understanding is that he neither rejected them or accepted them. He saw clearly what was of benefit and what was not. This clear seeing comes from and is not different than seeing the true nature of reality. With this vision he was able to skillfully help those who had faith in the Vedas to reject those ideas which were harmful or at least not that helpful.


Metta

Gabe


There are harmfull ideas contained inside?
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:11 pm

Satori wrote:
There are harmfull ideas contained inside?
It might do well for you to do some actual study of Buddhist history. I'll be glad to suggest a couple of good books with which to start.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:12 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:14 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Hanzze wrote:
Satori wrote:There are harmfull ideas contained inside?

In deed, as had not the Robin Hood mind I guess
Huh?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:15 pm

Hanzze wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:It might do well for you to do some actual study of Buddhist history. I'll be glad to suggest a couple of good books with which to start.

?
?
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Satori » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:16 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Satori wrote:
There are harmfull ideas contained inside?
It might do well for you to do some actual study of Buddhist history. I'll be glad to suggest a couple of good books with which to start.


Hi Sir, thank you. It always helps to understand the historical context and the unwritten assumptions. But perhaps I am asking too many questions.

I have read that Buddhism influenced Hinduism and vice versa and at the time of the Buddha , Hindus did things like sacrafice animals to deities, which Buddhism did not.

Although I am very ignorant , in my humble opinin , it seems that Lord Buddha was reforming the Hindu faith.
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:25 pm

Satori wrote:it seems that Lord Buddha was reforming the Hindu faith.
Reforming? No. What we call Hindhuism, as exemplified by such as the Bhagavad Gita, is pretty much a something that arose in response to Buddhism. The Buddha rejected the basis of the Brahmanism that existed at his time.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Satori » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:33 pm

tiltbillings wrote:
Satori wrote:it seems that Lord Buddha was reforming the Hindu faith.
Reforming? No. What we call Hindhuism, as exemplified by such as the Bhagavad Gita, is pretty much a something that arose in response to Buddhism. The Buddha rejected the basis of the Brahmanism that existed at his time.


Well, Lord Buddha , seems to have taken ideas from Hinduism, in the pali canon , there is mentioning of Hindu deities, such as Yama. There is also mentioning in rebirth and karma , which I thoughted was Hindu ideas.

The Buddha said our actions affect our rebirth in the rounds of rebirth.

I also thought that both Buddhists and Hindus believe there are six realms of existance.
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:35 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby tiltbillings » Sun Oct 10, 2010 5:50 pm

Hanzze wrote:I thought it is useful to come her to learn as I guess that there is no much to read about what is the motivation in once mind.
I think you read English as poorly as you write it, so try to take a bit more care with your reading. The question is one of history, not the "motivation in once [sic] mind."
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Hanzze » Sun Oct 10, 2010 6:04 pm

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Sun Oct 31, 2010 6:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:14 pm

Hanzze wrote:Worldly it is needed, spiritual not.


Please explain your meaning. Spiritual here is not well defined. I think of the word as tending towards an ideal while worldly tends towards the limited or relative.


Metta

Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Sobeh » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:21 pm

The Vedas, in the time of the Buddha, were being reformulated according to the Upanisads. These texts were giving a symbolic twist to Vedic ritual life such that the last quarter of ones life was spent as an eremite performing Vedic ritual in a purely meditative way, rather than physically. Two of these sorts of meditating wanderers would instruct the Buddha after he left the home life, and the Buddha rejected their teachings as not leading to the cessation of suffering - though he still learned meditation from them. When you read about wanderers of other sects in the Suttas you are reading about other Upanisadic eremites (later anchorites as well), Jains among them, and in all cases the Buddha teaches by the Middle Way, neither affirming nor denying the metaphysical assertions of his contemporaries.
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Re: Did Lord Buddha accept the authority or reject the vedas?

Postby Prasadachitta » Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:42 pm

Satori wrote:
gabrielbranbury wrote:
My understanding is that he neither rejected them or accepted them. He saw clearly what was of benefit and what was not. This clear seeing comes from and is not different than seeing the true nature of reality. With this vision he was able to skillfully help those who had faith in the Vedas to reject those ideas which were harmful or at least not that helpful.


Metta

Gabe


There are harmfull ideas contained inside?


My understanding of the Vedic culture from the time of the Buddha is mostly informed by my reading of translated Buddhist scripture as well as commentary by more scholarly types a few of whom are on this very chat board. It is my understanding that the contemporary Vedic culture used animal sacrifice and other forms of ritual divination to attempt to influence favorable conditions within nature. Also this practice was strictly limited to a certain cast of people who made their living and derived power over others with this monopoly. The Buddha repeatedly showed through discourse how the cast of an individual indicated nothing about their character or capacity to help others. The Vedic culture held that certain casts were intrinsically more pure and righteous than others. This is still a very influential and harmful system within India to this very day. It is one reason that millions of lower cast Indians are converting to Buddhism. It is my opinion that there are more subtly harmful ideas but I think these are enough for now. There were many practices which came out of the culture which the Buddha praised as beneficial. He transformed contemporary expressions for the sake of common understanding so that they pointed toward the truth which he had discovered. This is one reason why Buddhism can sound a bit similar to other Indian traditions. However the Buddha was communicating something fundamentally unique to all his contemporaries. What he communicated usually contradicted the basic assumptions of those he spoke with.


Metta

Gabe


Take care


Gabe
"Beautifully taught is the Lord's Dhamma, immediately apparent, timeless, of the nature of a personal invitation, progressive, to be attained by the wise, each for himself." Anguttara Nikaya V.332
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