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Did the Buddha teach that we have choice? - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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octathlon
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby octathlon » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:54 am


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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 2:57 am

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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tiltbillings
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:24 am


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robertk
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby robertk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:29 am

Last edited by robertk on Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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robertk
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby robertk » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:38 am

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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:42 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

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Kim OHara
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Kim OHara » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:50 am


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Hanzze
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Hanzze » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:59 am

I guess one needs to see/realize cause and effect first. Not the mass of it. In a jungle one would not see the tree.
For a monkey its just another branch :-)
Just that! *smile*


BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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tiltbillings
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:14 am


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cooran
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby cooran » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:44 am

Hello all,

Might be worth the read:

Kamma and Causality - Francis Story
’Does everything happen in our lives according to kamma?’ This question is not one that can be answered by a plain affirmation or denial, since it involves the whole question of free-will against determinism, or, in familiar language, ’fatalism’. The nearest that can be given to a simple answer is to say that most of the major circumstances and events of life are conditioned by kamma, but not all.

If everything, down to the minutest detail, were pre-conditioned either by kamma or by the physical laws of the universe, there would be no room in the pattern of strict causality for the functioning of free-will. It would therefore be impossible for us to free ourselves from the mechanism of cause and effect; it would be impossible to attain Nibbana.
.......................
http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh221-p.html# ... dCausality

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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cooran
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby cooran » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:26 am

And another:

Kamma and Freedom - Francis Story
The problems encountered in relating the Buddhist doctrine of kamma to the issue of causality and freedom, are largely ones of meaning. They particularly revolve around the meaning of such concepts as causation, conditioning and determination. Buddhism does not deny that man is largely conditioned by his circumstances and environment. But the conditioning is not absolute. It may almost amount to determinism, and the margin of free-will may be very slight indeed, but it is always present.
................................
http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/wh221-p.html#KammaandFreedom

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 4:29 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby kirk5a » Sat Nov 20, 2010 5:55 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 6:30 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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kirk5a
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby kirk5a » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:00 pm

"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230

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mikenz66
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby mikenz66 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 7:09 pm


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Alex123
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Nov 20, 2010 8:02 pm

"Life is a struggle. Life will throw curveballs at you, it will humble you, it will attempt to break you down. And just when you think things are starting to look up, life will smack you back down with ruthless indifference..."

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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Nov 20, 2010 10:49 pm

Greetings Alex,

No one is arguing in favour of an agent.

Ostensibly you continue to argue with straw-men.

Image

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

Individual
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby Individual » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:11 pm

Too lazy to read through all the posts here, but I'll say: It depends on what you mean by choice.

The Buddha did teach that we have the ability to find freedom from suffering, but that freedom is found in the realization of impermanence and notself, not something that is intrinsic to our existence.Quite the contrary, many of us have limited will. Our bodies may be fully capable of getting up and doing this or that, but our minds are hindered by this or that fetter, and so is incapable. The Buddha said that many people are "as if already dead."

As I see it, then, this question is improperly framed, in terms of self: You ask do "we" have choice, but there is no person to attribute or not attribute freedom to, nor did the Buddha outright support or oppose the idea of agenthood. But rather, your question should instead be, "Is there a practice leading to freedom?" And the answer is: Yes. The Noble Eightfold path. :)

People should not bother themselves with these kinds of views, because in both cases they are a burden: For the determinist, he falsely thinks he cannot be free. And for the indeterminist, he falsely thinks he is already free. These kinds of delusions stand in the way of true freedom. :)
The best things in life aren't things.


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retrofuturist
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Re: Did the Buddha teach that we have choice?

Postby retrofuturist » Sat Nov 20, 2010 11:12 pm

:goodpost:
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine


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