clw_uk wrote:I thought I would answer your post here from here
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=6452&start=20What surprises me is the rather unsophisicated approach here. If you had knowledge of the Four Noble Truths, you would be awakened. The FNT are tools, picked up to do a job. If there were no belief initially concerning the FNT, there would be no picking them up, there would be no ehipassiko, come and see.
Is awakening to the Four Noble truths sudden or gradual.
Gradual and then sudden.
" Just as the ocean has a gradual shelf, a gradual slope, a gradual inclination, with a sudden drop-off only after a long stretch, in the same way this Doctrine and Discipline has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual progression, with a penetration to gnosis only after a long stretch. The fact that this Doctrine and Discipline has a gradual training, a gradual performance, a gradual progression, with a penetration to gnosis not just after a stretch: This is the first amazing and astounding fact about this Doctrine and Discipline that, as they see it again and again, has the monks greatly pleased with the Doctrine and Discipline.
- Udana 5.5 - Uposatha Sutta
I think what we commonly accept as progress in the path, is simply a weakening of delusion (and greed and hatred). If we we're to stop practicing today, like a fungal infection not properly treated, the delusion would regrow and we would find ourselves more or less back where we started. Just as one swimming upstream, if he were to stop would find himself back at the point where he entered the river.
I think ignorance and delusion are two separate things. The removal of the former is precepitated by a long and steady removal of the latter