Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

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Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby starter » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:03 pm

Hi friends,

I'm a bit confused about the removal of our clinging to views. Today I read:

"… look at the drawbacks that come from clinging to a view, one of the major drawbacks being that you inevitably get into arguments with other people."
-- but how about right view? Should we use right view only for our own detachment and letting-go, not for helping others?

"When you see that views really can't express the truth about things [how about right views?], and that holding onto them is going to cause you to suffer, you can cut through your attachment to them."

Metta,

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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby clw_uk » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:08 pm

Right view is non-clinging, if you have Right View then you dont cling to Right View
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby Reductor » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:19 pm

Right view goes too. It is a matter of when, which is important. Often enough we see people trying to dispense with their right view before they've dispensed with their ego clinging. So there are those that argue with others, telling them 'let go your views, let go your views' all the while clinging to their view that those other's view ought to be let go of.

However, once you have reached a point where you've let go of most, or all, right view, you may still explain the path of practice and experience with right view. After all, it was with your right view that you abandoned right view, so obviously that right view that you had clung to is of fruit and benefit. But when those to whom your explaining that view don't understand, you will be still be calm and not inclined to strident argument with them on account of this right view; however, when they are inclined to understand, you will still be calm, and you will explain further.
Michael

The thoughts I've expressed in the above post are carefully considered and offered in good faith.

And friendliness towards the world is happiness for him who is forbearing with living beings. -- Ud. 2:1
To his own ruin the fool gains knowledge, for it cleaves his head and destroys his innate goodness. -- Dhp 72

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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby tiltbillings » Thu Dec 23, 2010 5:38 pm

clw_uk wrote:Right view is non-clinging, if you have Right View then you dont cling to Right View
starter, Well, yes, but in the meantime before one comes to "Right View," which really is not an intellectual process, but one of insight, we need to deal with our using view to get to that place. It may help to recognize that we are going to have views whether we want to or not, not to take them too seriously, and recognize their utility in understanding the Dhamma.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby starter » Thu Dec 23, 2010 7:52 pm

Hi friends,

Thanks a lot for your very helpful comments and advice.

I just read the following:

"Right view leads you away from suffering because it allows you to do two things. First, you can use it as a tool to uproot your clinging to everything else. Then, because it teaches you to recognize all your attachments wherever they are, it teaches you how to turn around and let go of right view itself."

"If you learn how to make your views right and then apply those right views to understand how the mind creates suffering, that's how views ultimately take you beyond views. Your right view will show you how to let go of right view when you need to. But don't be too quick to drop it. Don't be the sort of person who leaves the raft on the near shore and tries to float through the air over the river. Use the raft when it's helpful. That's why the Buddha left it behind for us. That's what it's for."

-- Meditation4

Metta,

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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby dhammapal » Fri Dec 24, 2010 2:05 am

Hi Starter, I found this quote:
Thanissaro Bhikkhu wrote:Just because a thought comes into your head doesn't mean that you should think it.

Look at it:
1) is it true?
2) is it beneficial? Does it really help to think about this?
3) is right now the right time and place to do that?
4) whether it's pleasing or unpleasing (unpleasing can sometimes be beneficial at the right time)

This helps explain the seeming contradiction you see in a lot of the Buddha's teachings; on the one hand talking about right views - then on the other hand not clinging to views. Not clinging means looking at your thoughts in precisely this way; Are they true? Are they beneficial? Is right now the right time and place to think those things? Clinging means you hold onto a particular view no matter what.
http://www.dhammatalks.org
From "Right Inner Speech" by Thanissaro Bhikkhu

With metta / dhammapal.
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby ground » Fri Dec 24, 2010 3:40 am

As long as there are the aggregates right view is not to be abandoned.

"An arahant should attend in an appropriate way to these five clinging-aggregates as inconstant, stressful, a disease, a cancer, an arrow, painful, an affliction, alien, a dissolution, an emptiness, not-self. Although, for an arahant, there is nothing further to do, and nothing to add to what has been done, still these things — when developed & pursued — lead both to a pleasant abiding in the here-&-now and to mindfulness & alertness."
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html




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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby plwk » Fri Dec 24, 2010 4:52 am

As someone remarked to me once...'Don't sink the boat before/while crossing over to the Other Shore' :tongue:
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

Anguttara-Nikaya: Ekanipata: Ekadhammapali: Pañhamavagga
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby Phra Chuntawongso » Fri Dec 24, 2010 7:01 am

plwk wrote:As someone remarked to me once...'Don't sink the boat before/while crossing over to the Other Shore' :tongue:

I like this.
And crawling on the planets face,some insects called the human race.
Lost in time
Lost in space
And meaning
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:10 am

starter wrote:Hi friends,

I'm a bit confused about the removal of our clinging to views. Today I read:

"… look at the drawbacks that come from clinging to a view, one of the major drawbacks being that you inevitably get into arguments with other people."
-- but how about right view? Should we use right view only for our own detachment and letting-go, not for helping others?

"When you see that views really can't express the truth about things [how about right views?], and that holding onto them is going to cause you to suffer, you can cut through your attachment to them."

Metta,

Starter



Letting go of clinging to right view doesn't mean that one rejects that right view. One simply doesn't cling to it. But the understanding to which one doesn't cling, still remains. One doesn't revert to childlike behaviour where one doesn't know anything.
"dust to dust...."
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby clw_uk » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:12 am

Letting go of clinging to right view doesn't mean that one rejects that right view.



Who said anything about rejecting?
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:20 am

clw_uk wrote:
Letting go of clinging to right view doesn't mean that one rejects that right view.



Who said anything about rejecting?



Some can understanding "letting go" as meaning that one needs to reject the thing that one has let go.
"dust to dust...."
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby clw_uk » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:21 am

Alex123 wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
Letting go of clinging to right view doesn't mean that one rejects that right view.



Who said anything about rejecting?



Some can understanding "letting go" as rejecting something.



True, which means they dont know what non-clinging/non adherence means
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby Alex123 » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:21 am

clw_uk wrote:
True, which means they dont know what non-clinging/non adherence means



Right.
"dust to dust...."
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Re: Remove our clinging to RIGHT views also?

Postby clw_uk » Sat Dec 25, 2010 1:23 am

Alex123 wrote:
clw_uk wrote:
True, which means they dont know what non-clinging/non adherence means



Right.



Something to bear in mind
“ Your mind is likewise blocked. But the right road awaits you still. Cast out your doubts, your fears and your desires, let go of grief and of hope as well, for where these rule , then the mind is their subject." Boetius
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