Where Are the Ven's Robes?

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salmon
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Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby salmon » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:26 am

I was reading the buddhistchannel.tv when I chanced upon this article on how a Buddhist monk had to don layman's wear to receive a title.

I don't quite know how to react.

:o
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby Paññāsikhara » Wed Jan 19, 2011 6:50 am

salmon wrote:I was reading the buddhistchannel.tv when I chanced upon this article on how a Buddhist monk had to don layman's wear to receive a title.

I don't quite know how to react.

:o


My guess would be that it is due to the position of Islam as the official religion of Malaysia, and possibly the situation of conferring honors upon other religions. According to Wiki, "the King is the Head of Islam ..." Just my guess.
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby some1 » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:54 am

Yes, the King is indeed Head of Islam.
Freedom of religion is enshrined in the the Malaysian Constitution. First, Article 11 provides that every person has the right to profess and to practice his or her religion and (subject to applicable laws restricting the propagation of other religions to Muslims) to propagate it. Second, the Constitution also provides that Islam is the religion of the country but other religions may be practiced in peace and harmony (Article 3).

Generally, Buddhist monks/nuns are allowed to wear thier robes in official occasions. Below is a link to a related article in the local Chinese newspaper.

http://www.sinchew.com.my/node/190219?tid=1

The vice president of Malaysian Buddhist Association commented that all monks/nuns should wear their robes at all occasions.

[anyway, I think lay person is not in a position to discuss about monastic precepts]
Last edited by some1 on Wed Jan 19, 2011 8:11 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby plwk » Wed Jan 19, 2011 7:58 am

Some readings... 1 2

Personally, I respect Venerable Datuk Dhammaratana very much like his predecessor, the late Ven Dr K Sri Dhammananda...both have been excellent & exemplary Dhammadutas in my country and I wish him the continued success and support he has shown in Dhamma and also in numerous charitable efforts for all sentient beings. Sadhu!Sadhu!Sadhu! :anjali:
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Wed Jan 19, 2011 9:00 am

If a dress code is insisted over the religious objections of another person it's an act of disrespecting that religion. From what I have read, Venerable Datuk Dhammaratana had protested wearing the suit, his protesting was ignored. If he were to instead refuse the honors, he might have caused more harm by offending the king or the country. So I think he made a practical decision but I am more concerned about the violation of the King, not the Venerable, specifically in principle. It speaks to the condition of Buddhists in countries where the religion is not well respected or understood. I would be incredibly concerned for the venerables and less concerned about whether an award is accepted for honors, or whether a monk is wearing his robes or not, but I'm very concerned by a state's refusal to honor a person's religious objections. Maybe perhaps we should pay attention on a smaller scale in many countries to see if there's more subtle or open discrimination there. We probably have other more serious issues we could bring to light.
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby salmon » Fri Jan 21, 2011 8:49 am

The point is not to say whose fault it was...whether the Venerable was forced to do it, or he agreed to do it.

This has shown how much the Dhamma has degenerated - not to the disrespect of the Venerable - to a point such that politics and statuses are able to command religious behaviour at their fancy.
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby Bhikkhu Pesala » Fri Jan 21, 2011 10:26 am

No one should criticise the Venerable unless they have walked a thousand miles in his shoes, or wearing the robes.

According to the Vinaya rule, it is allowable to obey kings.

Even if it is an offence, it is a minor one, and a personal choice that one can make.

As a young monk, I remember meeting the Queen at an Opening Ceremony for some cultural event, along with Venerable Dr Hammalawa Saddhatissa and some other senior monks. We all shook her hand — an offence of wrong doing for a monk, but refusing to shake her hand would have resulted in many non-Buddhists getting a negative impression of Buddhism, so it was the right thing to do in the circumstances.

Normally, if a woman tries to shake my hand, it is in a situation where I can explain why, and there are no cameras, so at worst I shall offend one or two persons.
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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:06 am

_/\_
Last edited by Hanzze on Tue Feb 01, 2011 2:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby Hanzze » Fri Jan 21, 2011 11:13 am

For layman it is good to keep just this point.

The duties of a lay person to a monk

1. To perform actions motivated by loving kindness. 2. To say words motivated by loving kindness. 3. To have thoughts of loving kindness. 4. To invite him to visit one's house if necessary and to invite him to report his needs. 5. To provide him with the four requisites: lodging, clothing, food and medicines, within the limitations of one's means.
Just that! *smile*
...We Buddhists must find the courage to leave our temples and enter the temples of human experience, temples that are filled with suffering. If we listen to Buddha, Christ, or Gandhi, we can do nothing else. The refugee camps, the prisons, the ghettos, and the battlefields will become our temples. We have so much work to do. ... Peace is Possible! Step by Step. - Samtach Preah Maha Ghosananda "Step by Step" http://www.ghosananda.org/bio_book.html

BUT! it is important to become a real Buddhist first. Like Punna did: Punna Sutta Nate sante baram sokham _()_

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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby nalandaleong » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:37 am

Probably the King himself had no prior knowledge of this silly dress code being imposed on a religious person.
Sometimes such matters may be in the hands of some over-zealous or totally ignorant Palace official handling the protocol.
All the more reason for exchange of practise and ideas in the INTER FAITH org.

Anyway I don't think this has in any way tarnished the image of Buddhism, in Malaysia or any place else...remember.. dropping the ego is always a hard thing to do.
I am sure the Chief Rev had acted wisely in opting to receive this award (on behalf of the Buddhist sangha and surely not for himself) dressed in laymen clothing in conformance with Palace protocol.

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Re: Where Are the Ven's Robes?

Postby retrofuturist » Mon Jan 24, 2011 10:25 pm

Greetings,

Bhikkhu Pesala wrote:According to the Vinaya rule, it is allowable to obey kings.

Even if it is an offence, it is a minor one, and a personal choice that one can make.

As a young monk, I remember meeting the Queen at an Opening Ceremony for some cultural event, along with Venerable Dr Hammalawa Saddhatissa and some other senior monks. We all shook her hand — an offence of wrong doing for a monk, but refusing to shake her hand would have resulted in many non-Buddhists getting a negative impression of Buddhism, so it was the right thing to do in the circumstances.

:thumbsup:

Well said, bhante.

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