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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 1:56 pm

kirk5a wrote:
Spiny O'Norman wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:It become an interesting question of how do we discuss the Mahayana here.


Respectfully would be my suggestion.

Spiny

I agree. Which is related to "Not regarding it as self or as opposed to self."


Would you apply that to the views of the Jehovahs Witnesses ?
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:17 pm

I can only assume that a proportion of members live in spendid isolation from real hands on sangha. Which enables them to cling on to romantic notions which remain unchallenged. What Tamdrin wrote was absolutely in line with the majority of Vajrayana people with reference to the Theravada.
They just dont normally say it to Theravadins :lol:

And if you pop into ZFI you will see both the Vajrayana and Theravadin being absolutely traduced on regular basis by its propriator...but he doesnt come here to do it...

A senior member of the Forest Sangha whose name is regularly bandied about on this forum once observed to me...

" at best the Mahayana is about gilding the lily "....



There is a myth about Pan Buddhist cuddlyness....it is actually non existent outside of the rarified atmosphere of cyberworld.
Last edited by PeterB on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:24 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby kirk5a » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:17 pm

PeterB wrote:Would you apply that to the views of the Jehovahs Witnesses ?

The proof is in the doing, as you say, so I'll test that next time one comes to my door.
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:22 pm

kirk5a wrote:
PeterB wrote:Would you apply that to the views of the Jehovahs Witnesses ?

The proof is in the doing, as you say, so I'll test that next time one comes to my door.

I dont mean would you treat them with personal respect...I would hope you would.
Would you assume that his/her view was just as valid as yours ?


I think that the view of the Theravada , beyond a partially shared vocab is as far removed from the Mahayana as is the view of the Jehovahs Witnesses. I think we are not talking about the same thing at all....
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:24 pm

...
Last edited by Jhana4 on Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:29 pm

PeterB wrote:There is a myth about Pan Buddhist cuddlyness....it is actually non existent outside of the rarified atmosphere of cyberworld.


I've found that there is a lot more time for me to enjoy the fruits of meditation and other things I enjoy in life when I exercise my prerogative to click the "next button" on people who don't have useful things to write.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby kirk5a » Thu Feb 17, 2011 2:37 pm

PeterB wrote:I dont mean would you treat them with personal respect...I would hope you would.
Would you assume that his/her view was just as valid as yours ?


I think that the view of the Theravada , beyond a partially shared vocab is as far removed from the Mahayana as is the view of the Jehovahs Witnesses. I think we are not talking about the same thing at all....

Well honestly, I would try to look at the parts of whatever it is the views of the Jehovahs Witnesses are (I really don't know). Maybe there are some parts that I would agree completely with, perhaps involving basic morality, or the golden rule or something. Other parts I'm sure I would disagree with. So, treating something with respect, or not regarding it as self or as opposed to self, doesn't mean that I don't disagree, necessarily. We can respectfully disagree and I can work on not taking whatever someone says personally. Easy to say, not so easy to do, I recognize that.

I give a big thumbs up to paying close attention to the suttas. I look at some "Mahayana" things and I don't see any difference there. I look at others, and I can't find how it relates. But I see that with Theravada commentary as well, and there's plenty of Theravadins who say of other Theravadin stuff "That's not in the suttas!"
"When one thing is practiced & pursued, ignorance is abandoned, clear knowing arises, the conceit 'I am' is abandoned, latent tendencies are uprooted, fetters are abandoned. Which one thing? Mindfulness immersed in the body." -AN 1.230
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:07 pm

PeterB wrote:The forum sub banner reads

"A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada..."


Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?



This was the OP...any comments pertinent to it?
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Akuma » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:16 pm

PeterB wrote:
PeterB wrote:The forum sub banner reads

"A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada..."
Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?


This was the OP...any comments pertinent to it?


The subforumrules read:

The purpose of this sub-forum is to openly permit important and challenging discussion on the Dhamma.

Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:36 pm

PeterB wrote:
Spiny O'Norman wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:It become an interesting question of how do we discuss the Mahayana here.


Respectfully would be my suggestion.

Spiny

I could point you to a number of posts in recent days that have shown great dsirespect to the Theravada...I would be interested if you could draw my attention to posts that disrespect the Mahayana.


How about these patronising comments in the "Why I'm not a Theravadan" thread:

PeterB wrote:The most charitible explanation is that the Mahayanists have a Bodhisattva like ( but unneeded and unwanted ) concern to save us.
The least charitable is that they are first projecting and then addressing their own doubts about the gothic edifice into which they have wandered.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:40 pm

Akuma wrote:
PeterB wrote:
PeterB wrote:The forum sub banner reads

"A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada..."
Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?


This was the OP...any comments pertinent to it?


The subforumrules read:

The purpose of this sub-forum is to openly permit important and challenging discussion on the Dhamma.

Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?

Note the use of the word "Dhamma"...in this subforum of a forum whose subheading is "a disussion forum on the Dhamma OF THE THERAVADA .."

Dhamma Wheel has a sister forum called Dharma Wheel. ITS subheading says " A discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Vajyana and Mahayana "

Good for them. More power to their elbows I say.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:46 pm

You can ad hom all you like Norman....but we may have to differ about the nature of the patronising.
An example of being patronising to me is choosing to ignore the fact that this forum is for the " discussion on the Dhamma of The Theravada "

What do you think that means ?
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:50 pm

PeterB wrote:There is a myth about Pan Buddhist cuddlyness....it is actually non existent outside of the rarified atmosphere of cyberworld.


That hasn't been my experience. I've found that sectarianism is more of a problem online. , perhaps because sanghas from different schools don't actually mix that often offline.
I think it's better to avoid sectarianism whereever possible, and just accept that different people are following different paths.

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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:50 pm

PeterB wrote:The forum sub banner reads

"A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada..."


Is any of this ambiguous and difficult to understand ?


Once more this is the OP....
Do you think that the sub banner should be done away with...or just ignored ? Or does it perhaps say what the actual intention of the forum is ?
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:52 pm

PeterB wrote:You can ad hom all you like Norman....but we may have to differ about the nature of the patronising.


I think your comments were patronising. You were the one who asked for examples, so I provided one.

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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Akuma » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:52 pm

Note the use of the word "Dhamma"...in this subforum of a forum whose subheading is "a disussion forum on the Dhamma OF THE THERAVADA .."

Dhamma Wheel has a sister forum called Dharma Wheel. ITS subheading says " A discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Vajyana and Mahayana "

Good for them. More power to their elbows I say.


Eventho I expected this reaction I am a bit at a loss of words.
I am talking about this thread of yours which is offtopic in regard to the rules of this sub-forum.

Honestly man, as someone also interested in Psychology I cannot but wonder what hurt you so much that you cannot let your past as an "ignorant Mahayani" go. Whatever it was it is clouding your perception. Please do something about it. Get well soon :hello:
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:54 pm

Spiny O'Norman wrote:
PeterB wrote:There is a myth about Pan Buddhist cuddlyness....it is actually non existent outside of the rarified atmosphere of cyberworld.


That hasn't been my experience. I've found that sectarianism is more of a problem online. , perhaps because sanghas from different schools don't actually mix that often offline.
I think it's better to avoid sectarianism whereever possible, and just accept that different people are following different paths.

Spiny

No they dont Norman...for good reason..
And I note the " when did you stop beating your wife " clause...
I dont accept that practising within one school and wanting to debate with others who practice within that school under a banner which clearly says that this is a Theravada forum, IS sectarian..

I am not about to descend on Dharma Wheel and fire off my gob about the Theravada...THAT is lacking respect imo.
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:56 pm

Akuma wrote:
Note the use of the word "Dhamma"...in this subforum of a forum whose subheading is "a disussion forum on the Dhamma OF THE THERAVADA .."

Dhamma Wheel has a sister forum called Dharma Wheel. ITS subheading says " A discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Vajyana and Mahayana "

Good for them. More power to their elbows I say.


Eventho I expected this reaction I am a bit at a loss of words.
I am talking about this thread of yours which is offtopic in regard to the rules of this sub-forum.

Honestly man, as someone also interested in Psychology I cannot but wonder what hurt you so much that you cannot let your past as an "ignorant Mahayani" go. Whatever it was it is clouding your perception. Please do something about it. Get well soon :hello:

Your need to descend to labelling views with which you are uncomfortable as indicating illness are very interesting...
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Spiny O'Norman » Thu Feb 17, 2011 3:59 pm

PeterB wrote:I dont accept that practising within one school and wanting to debate with others who practice within that school under a banner which clearly says that this is a Theravada forum, IS sectarian..


I wasn't suggesting that.

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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 4:01 pm

So, having got my patronising and sick nature off our chests is anyone actually prepared to answer my question

What do you think "A Buddhist discussion forum on the Dhamma of the Theravada " means ?
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