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The Forum Sub Banner - Page 4 - Dhamma Wheel

The Forum Sub Banner

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
Jhana4
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:38 pm

My view ( and I realize it is _my_ view ) is that the root of Buddhist practice is meditation and the root of Buddhist meditation is learning to let go. The ideal with an out of the line person with a wrong opinion would be to state your opinion and then move on. Not be to religiously correct, but to keep with an overall self improvement project of cultivating a mind inclined toward letting go.

Not having read every word in the thread, it looked like you couldn't accept that someone was being wrong and that you were keeping an internet bickering match going like this was a typical web board.

Those are not things I haven't done and that I do not struggle with, so I found someone with your credentials doing that to be distressing.

"Geeze, if a psychiatrist trained in cognitive therapy and a student of a lama can't learn to let go of a sophmoric internet poster, what chance do I have? Should I even bother to try?"
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

PeterB
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:42 pm

More projections "Jnana4" buried within a rather odd idea of Buddha Dhamma...but feel free.

Jhana4
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:47 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

PeterB
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:49 pm

I asked your opinion about what exactly ?

Jhana4
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:51 pm

In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

PeterB
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 10:54 pm


Jhana4
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:07 pm

I like cats, don't do that. Have a good Thursday.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Ben
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Ben » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:12 pm

“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

(Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • •

e: [email protected]..

PeterB
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Thu Feb 17, 2011 11:17 pm

Thanks Ben....as you have probably guessed I am rather sorry now that i asked what I thought was a pretty interesting but uncontroversial question. :?

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Kim OHara
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:19 am


phil
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby phil » Fri Feb 18, 2011 12:49 am

Hi Peter I don't know what has been said in the whole of this thread but I really am sorry to hear that you want to strangle kittens. That won't solve anything and will just make Theravada look bad.

Seriously, living in Japan I am used to derogations/belittlements of Theravada by Mahayana folk and it used to bother me. Unless your point is that people who are not on the same page can't discuss productively, who cares? Didn't the Buddha say his teaching would deteriorate and disappear? People who might wish to promote Mahayana views at a Theravadan board are just providing helpful reminders of that. At least we don't get Soka Gakkai believers here...yet. :smile:

I remember when there was a fuss amoungst Christians about The Last Temptation of Christ and I wondered if they really had faith and focus on the Bible, why the fuss, it seemed like a confirmation of the lack of power of their faith. I don't know if that's quite the same here, but really, isn't people's opinion of Theravada just another one of the worldly conditions that we shouldn't let blow us around? But as I said before if your point is that it leads to a waste of time because of people not being on the same page, I see your point.
Kammalakkhano , bhikkhave, bālo, kammalakkhano pandito, apadānasobhanī paññāti
(The fool is characterized by his/her actions/the wise one is characterized by his/her actions/Wisdom shines forth in behaviour.)
(AN 3.2 Lakkhana Sutta)

Jhana4
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Jhana4 » Fri Feb 18, 2011 1:40 am

I don't know anything about the Mahayana tradition. Who do some of them look down upon Theravada. Do they think they have received "updated" teachings the way Muslims received an update on the new testament or the way Christinas received an update on the old testament?
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.

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Kim OHara
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Kim OHara » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:16 am


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retrofuturist
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby retrofuturist » Fri Feb 18, 2011 3:20 am

"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"The uprooting of identity is seen by the noble ones as pleasurable; but this contradicts what the whole world sees." (Snp 3.12)

"To argue with a person who has renounced the use of reason is like administering medicine to the dead" - Thomas Paine

plwk
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby plwk » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:39 am


Dan74-2ndincarnation
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby Dan74-2ndincarnation » Fri Feb 18, 2011 4:47 am

(sorry to use another nik - lost my password again... :embarassed: )

But as there is a whole lotta talk about Mahayana and not a single Mahayana practitioner participating (and wisely so), please indulge a fool putting in his 2 cents worth...

Let me fess up that i have heard sectarian and belittling sentiments coming from Mahayana practitioners but not often and not when they were happy with their own practice. And to me this is what it boils down to. Personally I don't give a hoot about claims of Mahayana supremacy any more than I give a hoot about Theravada claims of being the only true and pure teaching. People can practice and get good results with either. Mahayana may well be superior to what it portrayed as the Hinayana and I don't think Theravadins need to be concerned about this in the least.

Heck, people can get good results with theistic religions too if they motivate them to focus on cultivating virtue. People have even been known to cultivate samadhi and vipassana through prayer, but this is really getting off topic.

Speaking of the topic (yeah, finally) two things come to mind

Image

Image

Mind you I've been guilty of both so I am trying not to throw stones here.

Personally I feel no urge to set any Theravadins straight. Instead I will happily bow before any Theravada practitioner who can lead by example, showing brahmaviharas and bodhi-pakkhiya-dhamma. And I have no doubt that there are practitioners here and elsewhere I could learn a lot from. Of course human beings being human beings some will occasionally try to come and demonstrate their "superiority". I think that most people here behave very patiently and charitably toward these and I find the moderators' tolerance truly commendable.

So to me the banner is fine. I lurk quite often to read suttas and commentaries and sometimes (I confess) to sneak a peek of some juicy controversy or another (although here you don't even begin to compare to what we have in the American Zen scene, but this is another can of worms). In the past I have found it interesting when learned people have engaged in debate and whether or not they had an agenda, it was possible to learn from them. I like it when people with a clue challenge Mahayana tenets so likewise perhaps it is useful to some when some Theravada notions are questioned and explored in a respectful reasoned and honest manner or another perspective offered. In that sense I think Mahayana participation can be useful but seeing that I am neither learned nor do I have any issues with Theravada tenets (but only the highest respect for the Pali Canon) I try to stay away from debates and mostly read and ask questions when I have them.

Anyway differences in approaches do exist, but there is plenty of juice in both traditions. Time is short and I like Ben's sig in this regard.

_/|\_

(a wayward and mostly clueless practitioner of Korean Zen Buddhism)


PS In relation to this I recall the late patriarch of the Korean Chogye order Seongchol Sunim saying once that comparing Christian and Buddhist doctrine is like throwing an egg at a boulder but as far as practice in Korea is concerned it is just the opposite. So the proof is in the pudding isn't it, rather than in the collection of recipe books.

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tobes
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby tobes » Sat Feb 19, 2011 8:42 am

As some with a foot in each camp, so to speak, I have to say that I find the attitudes and unfounded assumptions towards the Mahayana in this thread pretty disappointing. Even, a little bit scary.

As if, all Mahayana practitioners believe that the prajnaparmita sutras came from Naga's.

As if, the Hinayana is always deployed as a direct synonym for the Theravada.

As if, Mahayana practitioners all walk around with an attitude of superiority towards their Theravada brothers and sisters, and even if unstated for reasons of diplomacy, deep down believe this to be true.

As if there is not a seminal dialectical connection between the ideas spoken by the Buddha and preserved in the Pali canon and the shastras composed centuries later.

As if the Mahayana fidelity is not also to the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha.

:anjali:

PeterB
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Re: The Forum Sub Banner

Postby PeterB » Sat Feb 19, 2011 9:05 am

I started the OP....I have put the lady down on the other side of the puddle and moved on...if any one wants to go on carrying her ....feel free.


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