Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby ground » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:53 am

tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:. . .
Nonesense. Nibbana is experience free from conditioning of greed, hatred, and delusion. It is the only "thing" that is. One does not need to descend into that quagmire of nagarjunian nonsense to make a simple point that addresses the OP.


Hmh ... "Nonesense" ...brilliant argument ...

However this has not much to do with Nagarjuna ... it just your pre-conditioning that makes it appear to you in that way.

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:54 am

Nagarjuna did not deny the existence of nibbana, but rather the fruitlessness of trying to describe it in words. This is because words are just complex schematics conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion. Nibbana is unconditioned, and uncompounded. So to say it is a "thing", and a "word" is factual.
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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 07, 2011 5:57 am

TMingyur wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:
TMingyur wrote:. . .
Nonesense. Nibbana is experience free from conditioning of greed, hatred, and delusion. It is the only "thing" that is. One does not need to descend into that quagmire of nagarjunian nonsense to make a simple point that addresses the OP.


Hmh ... "Nonesense" ...brilliant argument ...
Better than yours

However this has not much to do with Nagarjuna ... it just your pre-conditioning that makes it appear to you in that way.
Well, whatever your "argument" has to do with, it does not have anything to to do with what the suttas say. There is no point in the papañca of your point of view.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:03 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:Nagarjuna did not deny the existence of nibbana, but rather the fruitlessness of trying to describe it in words. This is because words are just complex schematics conditioned by greed, hatred, and delusion. Nibbana is unconditioned, and uncompounded. So to say it is a "thing", and a "word" is factual.


The only thing you said here that is correct: Nibbana is unconditioned, and uncompounded.

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is asankhata [unconditioned/uncompounded]. -- S.N. IV 359 and S.N. 362

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana. -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321.

There "is" no nibbana outside of the process of the individual nibbanized, the individual who is no longer conditioned by greed, hatred and delusion.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby Wizard in the Forest » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:27 am

tiltbillings wrote:The only thing you said here that is correct: Nibbana is unconditioned, and uncompounded.

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is asankhata [unconditioned/uncompounded]. -- S.N. IV 359 and S.N. 362

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana. -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321.

There "is" no nibbana outside of the process of the individual nibbanized, the individual who is no longer conditioned by greed, hatred and delusion.


You see, I have no argument with that, but I think T Mingyur is talking about the "Thingification" or word of Nibbana, and then to that I said "nibbana" is a word to describe the unconditioned and uncompounded. The word itself isn't nibbana. (And I wasn't implying what Nagarjuna spoke of has any truth value btw.)
"One is not born a woman, but becomes one."- Simone de Beauvoir

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:33 am

Wizard in the Forest wrote:
tiltbillings wrote:The only thing you said here that is correct: Nibbana is unconditioned, and uncompounded.

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is asankhata [unconditioned/uncompounded]. -- S.N. IV 359 and S.N. 362

That which is the destruction of greed, hatred and delusion is nibbana. -- S.N. IV 251 and IV 321.

There "is" no nibbana outside of the process of the individual nibbanized, the individual who is no longer conditioned by greed, hatred and delusion.


You see, I have no argument with that, but I think T Mingyur is talking about the "Thingification" or word of Nibbana, and then to that I said "nibbana" is a word to describe the unconditioned and uncompounded. The word itself isn't nibbana. (And I wasn't implying what Nagarjuna spoke of has any truth value btw.)
I know that was what he was talking about. As far as I am concerned for this thread, it was totally unnecessary.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson

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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby ground » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:45 am

tiltbillings wrote:
Wizard in the Forest wrote:...You see, I have no argument with that, but I think T Mingyur is talking about the "Thingification" or word of Nibbana, and then to that I said "nibbana" is a word to describe the unconditioned and uncompounded. The word itself isn't nibbana. (And I wasn't implying what Nagarjuna spoke of has any truth value btw.)
I know that was what he was talking about. As far as I am concerned for this thread, it was totally unnecessary.


That is not really the point.

TMingyur wrote:So IMO a valid question is:
What renders a term "valid" for an alleged experience that one has not yet experienced?

And if any alleged experience is a "dhamma" to which a term may refer then "God" refers to a dhamma too.

If "God" does not refer to a dhamma but "nibbana" does then what is this differentiation based on?

Kind regards



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Re: Examples of things that are NON-compounded ?

Postby tiltbillings » Mon Mar 07, 2011 6:49 am

.

TMingyur wrote:So IMO a valid question is:
What renders a term "valid" for an alleged experience that one has not yet experienced?

And if any alleged experience is a "dhamma" to which a term may refer then "God" refers to a dhamma too.

If "God" does not refer to a dhamma but "nibbana" does then what is this differentiation based on?

Kind regards
Which is in my opinion is is beside the point of the OP.
This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond.
SN I, 38.

Ar scáth a chéile a mhaireas na daoine.
People live in one another’s shelter.

dheamhan a fhios agam

"We eat cold eels and think distant thoughts." -- Jack Johnson


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