Dhamma Wheel Buddhist Forum

I was on Amazon reading reviews for a book on meditation. The authors of the review were giving the book very high marks for being clear and uncommonly useful. The authors of the book reviews on Amazon were also disturbed that the author claimed to be an arahant.

I can't imagine arahants caring to impress others, but I can't see them going out of their way to hide it either.

I understand the suspicion of anyone claiming any kind of "divinity". I'm an atheist.

However, if Buddhism is your religion and you really truly believe that becoming an arahant is an achievable goal wouldn't you eventually expect to learn of the existence of one?

Hello Jhana4,

Which book?

How would you tell if someone who claimed to be an arahant was telling the truth? And what does it matter?

Those of us who have been knocking around the buddhist internet discussion groups for years, are used to various people claiming different forms of attainment. I haven't met one yet whom I believed.

with metta
Chris

I guess this must be Daniel Ingram and if you search here, you'll see we've had long threads on him.

I do believe that nibbana/nirvana is a very real possibility and that the Buddha and many masters who followed have not been lying to us.

It might be that arahants do not view their condition as being an "achievable goal" and this is why you don't see them claiming it to be so.....
chownah

Hi Chownah,

chownah wrote:It might be that arahants do not view their condition as being an "achievable goal" and this is why you don't see them claiming it to be so.....
chownah

I thought that in the Suttas it is considered an achievable goal...the pursuit of which "clansmen rightly go forth from the household life into homelessness"...or something like that...I could be wrong.

Metta,

Guy

Yes. But what I find personally convincing are the writings (and recorded speech) of some Thai forest bhikkus of the past century. Ajahn Mun, Ajahn Boowa, Ajahn Lee, Ajahn Chah... They don't come out and proclaim "I am an arahant!" in so many words. But they don't make any bones about talking about all the phases of practice, including very detailed aspects leading to arahantship. In ways that clearly have not come from reading texts, but from personal experience. There is no question to me that they are saying they achieved it. (Achieving "divinity" is actually lower than arahantship btw)

Guy wrote:Hi Chownah,

chownah wrote:It might be that arahants do not view their condition as being an "achievable goal" and this is why you don't see them claiming it to be so.....
chownah

I thought that in the Suttas it is considered an achievable goal...the pursuit of which "clansmen rightly go forth from the household life into homelessness"...or something like that...I could be wrong.

Metta,

Guy

Huy Guy,
I don't know about your quote but it seems like it is talking about becoming a monk which would in my view be more righly seen as an achievable goal than becoming an arahant. Also note that what it says in the Suttas might not be what arahants' experiences might lead them to say....in the Suttas it might be that the Buddha is talking to people who (hopefully) are still clinging to the raft while arahants have already abandoned it....
chownah

The Bhikkhu I meet with, he claims to know living arahants. I am choosing to believe this, it inspires faith.

I personally know lay people who claim to be "enlightened", not through Buddhism but through New Age spiritual paths or cult activities. I feel really uncomfortable when they talk about this, I want to whistle a little tune while I wait for the space aliens to land... Seriously, how does one respond to that? I think this is why Daniel Ingram is so controversial. Maybe he is, maybe he isn't, but it amounts to an unverifiable and grandiose claim.

With that, I defer to the many many posts/threads that already exist about the topic.

I remember during a question and answer session, someone asking Ajahn Sumedho if there were any living arahants.

He replied that he was sure there must be....and then started laughing and said that he didn't think we'd find them on Facebook though !

.

Claiming to be enlightened but still here is highly questionable. Then there are those who claim to be enlightened but don't condemn sexual activities.

Dont know of Arhants in today's time but surely sotapannas do exist and therefore Arhants can too. Why they dont proclaim the same, it is probably because of humility that arhants or for that matter even sotapannas do not announce their attainments publicly. But nibbana remains a very much achievable task even today. A book worth reading is "•Living This Life Fully: Stories And Teachings Of Munindra".

Regards

Parth

Hi Parth,

parth wrote:Why they dont proclaim the same, it is probably because of humility that arhants or for that matter even sotapannas do not announce their attainments publicly.

Its to do with a rule within the Vinaya that a monastic may not disclose his attainment to a lay person. In Buddhist countries what has developed is a culture that disapproves of anyone claiming attainment states. I remember reading an account of an elderly monk in the Light of the Buddha magazine (commemorating the 6th Buddhist Council) that within his memory (early 20th C), it was still an offense punishable by the severing of the right hand, of anyone claiming one of the ariyan attainments in Burma.
kind regards

Ben

4. Above & beyond words

A well-read layman was conversing with Luang Pu, saying, "I firmly believe that in our present day and age there are not just a few monks who have practiced to the point of reaching the paths, fruitions, and nibbana. So why don't they make their knowledge public, so that those who are interested in the practice will know of the levels of Dhamma they have attained, as a way of giving them encouragement and hope so that they'll accelerate their efforts to the utmost of their ability?"

Luang Pu answered,

"Those who have awakened don't talk of what they've awakened to, because it lies above and beyond all words."

http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/thai ... eleft.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

one of the problems with people claiming to be arahants or enlightened is we ourselves are usually bad judges of our own character, far better to let our actions speak louder than words and let others judge us enlightened.

Dear Lyndon,

dont think that an Arhat would be bothered about being recognised as an Arhat. If he is bothered about it, he probably is not yet an Arhat.

Metta

Parth