Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths - what can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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cooran
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Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by cooran »

Hello all,

Does anyone know anything about this teacher Linda Clair, and claims of being enlightened?
http://simplemeditation.net/teacher/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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tiltbillings
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by tiltbillings »

cooran wrote:Hello all,

Does anyone know anything about this teacher Linda Clair, and claims of being enlightened?
http://simplemeditation.net/teacher/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

With metta
Chris
Not a thing, but wouldn't it be nice. I' will, however, stick with Dipa Ma and the few teachers, while making no claims about themselves, seem to embody the Dhamma.
>> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<< -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723
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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Ben »

Hi Chris,
Let me ask you, what do you think?
Are you not deafened by the pealing of alarm bells?
Personally, I wouldn't touch "Simple Meditation" or Linda Clair with a ten-foot pole.
kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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cooran
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by cooran »

Hello Tilt, Ben,

Yes, I always feel uncomfortable when someone claims enlightenment. It is just that just the group was listed on Meetups for Brisbane, is just starting up, and I was looking for a local meditation group which might meet close by.

I tend to agree with John Bullitt from ATI:

Are there any enlightened people in the world nowadays?
How can I tell who's really enlightened?


I wouldn't be a Buddhist if I didn't think enlightenment were possible. The Buddha himself observed that as long there are people practicing correctly in line with the noble eightfold path, there will continue to be enlightened beings in the world (DN 16).

Even better evidence of the reality of enlightenment lies in the "gradual" nature of the Buddha's teachings. In the suttas, the Buddha speaks again and again of the many rewards awaiting those who follow the Path, long before they reach nibbana: the happiness that comes from developing generosity; the happiness that comes from living according to principles of virtue; the happiness that comes from developing loving-kindness (metta); the happiness that comes from practicing meditation and discovering the exquisite bliss of a quiet mind; the happiness that comes from abandoning painful states of mind; and so on. These can be tasted for yourself, to varying degrees, through Dhamma practice. Once you've personally verified a few of the Buddha's teachings, it becomes ever-easier to accept the possibility that the rest of his teachings are plausible — including his extraordinary claim that enlightenment is accessible to us.

It's probably best not to spend too much time speculating on someone else's degree of enlightenment, simply because our own delusion and defilements are bound to cloud our vision and distort our assessment of others' attainments or lack thereof.

Our time is far better spent looking inwards and asking of ourselves: "Am I enlightened? Have I made an end of suffering and stress?" If the answer is negative, then we have more work to do.

Some lines of questioning regarding someone else's purity are, however, well worth pursuing — especially when deciding whether or not to accept that person as your teacher: "Does this person seem to be truly happy? Does he live by the precepts? Is her interpretation of Dhamma a valid one? Can I learn something of real value from him?" It can take a long and close association with someone before you can begin to answer these questions with any confidence (AN 4.192). But if you do find someone possessing this rare constellation of good qualities, stay with that person: he or she probably has something of lasting value to teach you.

Finally, one rule of thumb that I've found helpful: someone who goes around claiming to be enlightened (or dropping hints to that effect) probably isn't — at least not in the sense the Buddha had in mind.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/auth ... /bfaq.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Ben »

cooran wrote:Hello Tilt, Ben,

Yes, I always feel uncomfortable when someone claims enlightenment. It is just that just the group was listed on Meetups for Brisbane, is just starting up, and I was looking for a local meditation group which might meet close by.
I understand.

But something comes to mind that may prove useful to contemplate...
One whose mind
is enmeshed in sympathy
for friends & companions,
neglects the true goal.
Seeing this danger in intimacy,
wander alone
like a rhinoceros.

-- Snp 1.3 Khaggavisana Sutta, http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka ... .than.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
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Aloka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Aloka »

Is she actually claiming to be fully enlightened or is she just getting some meditational experiences which she's getting rather carried away by ? I didn't read all the links on the website.
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cooran
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by cooran »

Hello Aloka, all,

This is her description of enlightenment:
http://simplemeditation.net/articles/EN ... RIENCE.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
---The trouble is that you think you have time---
---Worry is the Interest, paid in advance, on a debt you may never owe---
---It's not what happens to you in life that is important ~ it's what you do with it ---
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Ben
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Ben »

Hi Aloka

There's more if you want to go onto the 'teacher' tab on the website. You can read all about Linda's 'journey'

I couldn't resist this pearl from the document Chris linked to:
It’s a state of not knowing – that’s what enlightenment is. And when you’re really fully immersed
in not knowing and not wanting to know, there can’t be any experience. There’s no time for any
experience.
I guess the Buddha was wrong!
Ignorance, according to Linda Clair, is the highest bliss!
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: [email protected]..
chownah
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by chownah »

I don't know anything about Linda Clair but I do have some views on claims of enlightenment....it means different things to different people....Buddhism does not have the copyright on the word and neither do any of the buddhist schools.....to point to a mundane meaning of enlightenment just think of the phrase "please enlighten me" which people use when asking for more information.....or how someone upon hearing an explanation of some unknown occurance will explain "how enlightening".....Almost for sure one could search and find uses of the word "enlightenment" to fill in an entire spectrum of meanings all the way from the mundane ones I"ve given to the nibanna experience of Buddhism. If you go to the link and read about her you will see that whoever is writing the text uses the term enlightenment very liberally and spreads it around freely. This kind of enlightenmet might not be the same as what the Buddha had or encourages us to pursue.
chownah
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Aloka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Aloka »

cooran wrote:Hello Aloka, all,

This is her description of enlightenment:
http://simplemeditation.net/articles/EN ... RIENCE.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

with metta
Chris
Thanks Chris have just read it.......oh dear !

.
plwk
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by plwk »

I’ve heard people say I must have a huge ego to go around saying I’m enlightened, but the only reason I can say it is because there isn’t any ego there. It would be much easier in a lot of ways to just keep my mouth shut, but I can’t keep quiet about this - it’s too important.
Cooran, it's obvious isn't it? :lol:
PeterB
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by PeterB »

Another denizen of the growing Non Duality Zoo I suspect...people, largely westerners, like Gangaji, Tony Parsons, Adyashani, Tolle etc etc...who have some kind of Peak Experience ( which are actually quite common and natural ) and get stuck there, and then set up shop.
It is a million miles from the ruthless radicalism of the Buddha who encountered many such teachers and exposed the relative shallowness of their attainment.
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Akuma »

peter wrote: Another denizen of the growing Non Duality Zoo I suspect...people, largely westerners, like Gangaji, Tony Parsons, Adyashani, Tolle etc etc...who have some kind of Peak Experience ( which are actually quite common and natural ) and get stuck there, and then set up shop.
It is a million miles from the ruthless radicalism of the Buddha who encountered many such teachers and exposed the relative shallowness of their attainment.
I think some of those are mixing up psychological breakdowns with attainment which is kinda funny if you see that others follow in their footsteps to get the same "attainments" :tongue:
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Dhammabodhi »

PeterB wrote: It is a million miles from the ruthless radicalism of the Buddha who encountered many such teachers and exposed the relative shallowness of their attainment.
Sadhu! :anjali:
"Take rest, take rest."-S.N.Goenka
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Re: Linda Clair - claims of being enlightened?

Post by Jhana4 »

cooran wrote: I tend to agree with John Bullitt from ATI:
John Bullit from accesstoinsight.org wrote: Are there any enlightened people in the world nowadays?
How can I tell who's really enlightened?


I wouldn't be a Buddhist if I didn't think enlightenment were possible.
My knee jerk reaction is also to assume someone is a crackpot or a manipulator if they claim to be liberated.

However, I think John Bullit has a point. If you are a Buddhist, that means to you that there are arahants *here* not just somewhere "out there".

How could a modern arahant reach out to people in modern times, with secular means without raising suspicions?

cooran wrote:
John Bullit from accesstoinsight.org wrote:

The Buddha himself observed that as long there are people practicing correctly in line with the noble eightfold path, there will continue to be enlightened beings in the world (DN 16).
One of the things that has been blowing my mind in reading the book "The Broken Buddha" by Ven Dhammika is his claim that many Asian monastics don't think it is possible for anyone to become liberated. This would seem to contradict the sutta reference above. A possible explanation is the authors claim that most Buddhists and most Asian monks have never read the Pali Canon.
cooran wrote:
John Bullit from accesstoinsight.org wrote: Even better evidence of the reality of enlightenment lies in the "gradual" nature of the Buddha's teachings. In the suttas, the Buddha speaks again and again of the many rewards awaiting those who follow the Path, long before they reach nibbana: the happiness that comes from developing generosity; the happiness that comes from living according to principles of virtue; the happiness that comes from developing loving-kindness (metta); the happiness that comes from practicing meditation and discovering the exquisite bliss of a quiet mind; the happiness that comes from abandoning painful states of mind; and so on. These can be tasted for yourself, to varying degrees, through Dhamma practice.
This quote is golden for listing what Buddhism can do for you if you are agnostic about rebirth, agnostic about kamma and if you are agnostic about the possibility of you ( or anyone else ) achieving nibbana.
In reading the scriptures, there are two kinds of mistakes:
One mistake is to cling to the literal text and miss the inner principles.
The second mistake is to recognize the principles but not apply them to your own mind, so that you waste time and just make them into causes of entanglement.
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