the great vegetarian debate

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby TheNoBSBuddhist » Thu Aug 14, 2014 9:50 am

I don't know why they're inexpensive here; but the recommended daily intake for the nutritive benefits to be adequate is around 30 a day. However, coupled with the other foods, this number can be reduced to around 20...
A 250g pack of almonds (£3.50) contains approximately 300 almonds (give or take!) so it's more than adequate for the week's intake.
The huge jar of olives is very good value 750g/£2.00 (from a cut-price economy international food supermarket) and apples are also very inexpensive.
So the week's intake, financially-speaking, will be a money-saving exercise!
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Mkoll » Thu Aug 14, 2014 10:12 am

How many calories do you plan to eat a day? Almonds are very calorie-dense but olives and apples aren't too filling. I'd imagine you'll have to eat quite a few!
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:21 pm

Due in no small part to inspiration from members of this thread, last night I prepared a meal of brown & wild rice, green peppers, onions, and cellery with peanuts balanced for essential nucleic acids. For a taste explosion and olfactory interest I added powdered garlic, sweet basil, curry, and what I determined by taste was "too much" canola oil and soy sauce. Frustrated with my error, I collected all the ingredients and decided to make an "egg beaters" omelette in the morning. From a purely karmic perspective, I still feel pretty good about the effort, since kamma is "intentional action" and shouldn't include culinary screw-ups.

My question is, aside from dilution being the solution to pollution, which I am going to do by combining the meal with eggs for breakfast this morning, what do others recommend for preventing ruination of an otherwise wonderful vegan meal? :tongue:
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A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Mkoll » Fri Aug 15, 2014 12:41 pm

Ron-The-Elder wrote:Due in no small part to inspiration from members of this thread, last night I prepared a meal of brown & wild rice, green peppers, onions, and cellery with peanuts balanced for essential nucleic acids. For a taste explosion and olfactory interest I added powdered garlic, sweet basil, curry, and what I determined by taste was "too much" canola oil and soy sauce. Frustrated with my error, I collected all the ingredients and decided to make an "egg beaters" omelette in the morning. From a purely karmic perspective, I still feel pretty good about the effort, since kamma is "intentional action" and shouldn't include culinary screw-ups.

My question is, aside from dilution being the solution to pollution, which I am going to do by combining the meal with eggs for breakfast this morning, what do others recommend for preventing ruination of an otherwise wonderful vegan meal? :tongue:

I think lightly salting the dish and letting the diners salt it to their own taste is a good idea.

Were you trying to make fried rice?
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Sat Aug 16, 2014 6:09 am

mkoll: "Were you trying to make fried rice?"


Thanks for the suggestion. My culinary instructor, my now deceased wife, taught me not to salt any food in preparation, because it dehydrated the meal. Popcorn is the singular exception! :popcorn:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Aloka » Mon Aug 18, 2014 5:05 am

Mkoll wrote:I think lightly salting the dish and letting the diners salt it to their own taste is a good idea.



Be careful about adding salt to food :

http://www.heartfoundation.org.au/healthy-eating/food-and-nutrition-facts/Pages/salt.aspx


.
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The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetarians

Postby kao1306 » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:22 am

Based On Visuddhimagga, We Can See Very Clearly That The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetarians.
@VISUDDHIMAGGA 40. This too has three grades. Herein, for one who is strict, except at the time of eating sugarcane, it is not allowed [while eating] to throw rubbish away, and it is not allowed while eating to break up rice-lumps, fish, meat and cakes. [The rubbish should be thrown away and the rice-lumps, etc., broken up before starting to eat.] The medium one is allowed to break them up with one hand while eating; and he is called a 'hand ascetic'. The mild one is called a 'bowl ascetic'; anything that can be put into his bowl he is allowed, while eating, to break up, [that is, rice lumps, etc.,] with his hand or [such things as palm sugar, ginger, etc.,] with his teeth.
----VISUDDHIMAGGA-II. THE ASCETIC PRACTICES -vi. The bowl-food-eater
http://realtruthlife.blogspot.tw/2011/0 ... A2JstJK2MY
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Re: The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetar

Postby Mkoll » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:24 am

Welcome to the forum!

I suggest this thread be merged with "the great vegetarian debate."
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Re: The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetar

Postby plwk » Mon Sep 08, 2014 11:57 am

And the point is, kao?
Bhikkhus, if you develop and make much this one thing,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.
What is it? It is recollecting the Enlightened One.
If this single thing is recollected and made much,
it invariably leads to weariness, cessation, appeasement, realization and extinction.

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Re: The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetar

Postby chownah » Mon Sep 08, 2014 1:40 pm

kao1306,
What you have shown is about the rules.....you have said nothing about what any particular monk ate. Since many monks abide by the rules it seems likely that many ate meat and fish but this is not to say that all monks followed the rules nor does it show that in some places perhaps meat and fish were not offered to monks.
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the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian

Postby kao1306 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:29 am

Obviously, the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian!
@StoryOfBuddha 69. To impress the other monks and nuns and disrupt the Sangha, Devadatta asked the Buddha to make stricter rules of conduct for the Sangha. He asked that monks not be allowed to sleep in houses or eat any meat. But the Buddha refused Devadatta's proposal. He said: "If some monks prefer to sleep in the open or not eat meat, they are free to do so. But if they do not wish to live this way they do not have to." Finally, the Buddha said: "Devadatta, if you try to break up the Sangha you will reap the evil fruits."
....... Story Of Buddha No.69
http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/buddhism/069bio.htm
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Re: the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian

Postby Ben » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:38 am

Was not a vegetarian!
The Buddha died 2500 years ago so he ceased to be or not be anything quite a long time ago.
Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.

Taṃ nadīhi vijānātha:
sobbhesu padaresu ca,
saṇantā yanti kusobbhā,
tuṇhīyanti mahodadhī.

Sutta Nipata 3.725


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Re: the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian

Postby David N. Snyder » Tue Sep 09, 2014 1:58 am

kao1306 wrote:Obviously, the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian!


Hi kao,

Your 2 posts so far have been about how the monks and the Buddha are not vegetarians. Vegetarian and non-vegetarian don't apply, they consume whatever food is offered to them. Perhaps flexitarian would be a better term; living by the 3 fold rule. If lay people only gave them vegetarian food, then yes, they would be (de-facto) vegetarians. And they would not be allowed to complain about it or request meat.
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Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetarians-#2

Postby kao1306 » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:10 am

Many Instances, In The Visuddhimagga, Reveal The Facts That The Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetarians.
@Visuddhimagga (I,78): Indirect talk is talk that keeps near [to the subject]. And here there should be told the story of the bhikkhu supported by a family. A bhikkhu, it seems, who was supported by a family went into the house wanting to eat and sat down. The mistress of the house was unwilling to give. On seeing him she said, 'There is no rice', and she went to a neighbour's house as though to get rice. The bhikkhu went into the . Looking round, he saw sugarcane in the corner behind the door, sugar in a bowl, a string of salt fish in a basket, rice in a jar, and ghee in a pot. He came out and sat down. When the housewife came back, she said, 'I did not get any rice'. The bhikkhu said, 'Lay follower, I saw a sign just now that alms will not be easy to get today'.— 'What, venerable sir?' — 'I saw a snake that was like sugarcane put in the corner behind the door; looking for something to hit it with, I saw a stone like a lump of sugar in a bowl. When the snake had been hit with the clod, it spread out a hood like a string of salt fish in a basket, and its teeth as it tried to bite the clod were like rice grains in a jar. Then the saliva mixed with poison that came out to its mouth in its fury was like ghee put in a pot'. She thought, 'There is no hoodwinking the shaveling', so she gave him the sugarcane and she cooked the rice and gave it all to him with the ghee, the sugar and the fish.
----Visuddhimagga‧I.description of virtue‧78.Indirect talk
http://thepathofpurification.blogspot.t ... -i-78.html
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Re: Traditional Theravada Buddhist Monks Are Not Vegetarians

Postby cooran » Tue Sep 09, 2014 7:22 am

http://www.buddhanet.net/e-learning/dha ... /fdd44.htm

The Vissudhimagga was written in Sri Lanka by Buddhaghosa about eight or nine hundred years after the Buddha lived.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby kao1306 » Mon Sep 15, 2014 6:42 am

Commentary On Chuang Tzu--A Real Vegetarian? Or A Fake Vegetarian?

Are You A Real Vegetarian? Or A Fake Vegetarian? The Vegetarian Of The Body Is The Vegetarian Appropriate To Sacrificing, Which Is The Fake Vegetarian; Yet, The Vegetarian Of The Mind Is The Real Vegetarian. @ChuangTzu Yan Hui said, 'I can go no farther; I venture to ask the method from you.' Zhongni replied, 'It is vegetarian, (as) I will tell you. (But) when you have the method, will you find it easy to practise it? He who thinks it easy will be disapproved of by the bright Heaven.' Hui said, 'My family is poor. For months together we have no spirituous drink, nor do we eat meat or any strong-smelling vegetables;-- can this be regarded as vegetarian?' The reply was, 'It is the vegetarian appropriate to sacrificing, but it is not the vegetarian of the mind.' 'I venture to ask what that vegetarian of the mind is,' said Hui, and Zhongni answered, 'Maintain a perfect unity in every movement of your will, You will not wait for the hearing of your ears about it, but for the hearing of your mind. You will not wait even for the hearing of your mind, but for the hearing of the spirit. Let the hearing (of the ears) rest with the ears. Let the mind rest in the verification (of the rightness of what is in the will). But the spirit is free from all pre-occupation and so waits for (the appearance of) things. Where the (proper) course is, there is freedom from all pre-occupation; such freedom is the vegetarian of the mind.'
http://ctext.org/all-texts?filter=527212
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby thepea » Mon Sep 15, 2014 9:50 am

I've been watching House of cards on Netflix, and there are some interesting insights into our cravings for flesh.
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ron-The-Elder » Mon Sep 15, 2014 8:00 pm

thepea wrote:I've been watching House of cards on Netflix, and there are some interesting insights into our cravings for flesh.


Having done a "binge-watch" of that entire series, my conclusion was that it was all about power. Flesh seemed to hold a close second place. :thinking:
What Makes an Elder? :
A head of gray hairs doesn't mean one's an elder. Advanced in years, one's called an old fool.
But one in whom there is truth, restraint, rectitude, gentleness,self-control, he's called an elder, his impurities disgorged, enlightened.
-Dhammpada, 19, translated by Thanissaro Bhikkhu.
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Re: the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian

Postby nekete » Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:31 pm

David N. Snyder wrote:
kao1306 wrote:Obviously, the Buddha Is Not A Vegetarian!


Hi kao,

Your 2 posts so far have been about how the monks and the Buddha are not vegetarians. Vegetarian and non-vegetarian don't apply, they consume whatever food is offered to them. Perhaps flexitarian would be a better term; living by the 3 fold rule. If lay people only gave them vegetarian food, then yes, they would be (de-facto) vegetarians. And they would not be allowed to complain about it or request meat.


Yes. I was going to say the same. :)

Hi Kao. Do you want me to give you links and opinions of monks talking about being vegetarians??
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