the great vegetarian debate

Exploring Theravāda's connections to other paths. What can we learn from other traditions, religions and philosophies?
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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:05 am

alan wrote:What else would I use as a basis other than my own research and experience, my passion to get this right, and my desire to share?


Because it is not a scientific study. I happen to eat a low fat vegetarian, mostly vegan diet and I am probably in the same shape as you or better. But I wouldn't use that as "proof" of the vegetarian diet being the best. We are probably in excellent shape due to our fitness regimens, more than our diets.

viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9234&view=unread#p142765

alan
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:49 am

I'm doing my best to provide useful information to those who care. I have no ideology to sell.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sat Aug 06, 2011 4:10 am

This debate has become boring. Nothing I can say will open a closed mind.
Vegetarians: There is something you can add to your diet that will make you healthier and slimmer. It will give you more energy and enhance the taste of most foods. Interested? Send a pm.

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:01 am

alan wrote:This debate has become boring. Nothing I can say will open a closed mind.
Don't be so closed minded as to assume that someone who does not agree with you is closed minded.

Vegetarians: There is something you can add to your diet that will make you healthier and slimmer. It will give you more energy and enhance the taste of most foods. Interested? Send a pm.
Animal fat?
    >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
    -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

alan
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:13 am

Ever the contrarian, tilt. Its starting to wear thin.
I'd like to hear a thoughtful, honest reply, and I'm sure you are capable of that. But you often take the easy way. You can do better. Show me more. I know you have it.

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tiltbillings
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby tiltbillings » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:48 am

alan wrote:Ever the contrarian, tilt. Its starting to wear thin.
Not be a contrarian; rather, simply pointing out that well informed opinions differ.

I'd like to hear a thoughtful, honest reply, and I'm sure you are capable of that. But you often take the easy way. You can do better. Show me more. I know you have it.
But, Alan, an honest reply to what? You have voiced a few opinions, but have offered little to nothing to back them up.

It will give you more energy and enhance the taste of most foods.
What is there to reply to here? Animal fat might enhance food taste for you, but taste is subjective. So, what is your point? More energy than what?
    >> Do you see a man wise [enlightened/ariya] in his own eyes? There is more hope for a fool than for him.<<
    -- Proverbs 26:12

This being is bound to samsara, kamma is his means for going beyond. -- SN I, 38.

“Of course it is happening inside your head, Harry, but why on earth should that mean that it is not real?” HPatDH p.723

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Paul Davy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Paul Davy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:15 am

Greetings,

alan wrote:There is something you can add to your diet that will make you healthier and slimmer. It will give you more energy and enhance the taste of most foods.


Is it...

ImageImage

:?:

Metta,
Retro. :)
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

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Ben
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Ben » Sat Aug 06, 2011 6:34 am

Hi Retro

It could also be this:

http://www.daleysfruit.com.au/fruit%20pages/miracle.htm

MIRACLE FRUIT, Synsepalum dulcificum
Although not sweet itself this miraculous fruit, consumed fresh and allowed to coat the mouth alters your tastebuds so that everything you eat tastes sweet, lasting for an hour or two.


kind regards

Ben
“No lists of things to be done. The day providential to itself. The hour. There is no later. This is later. All things of grace and beauty such that one holds them to one's heart have a common provenance in pain. Their birth in grief and ashes.”
- Cormac McCarthy, The Road

Learn this from the waters:
in mountain clefts and chasms,
loud gush the streamlets,
but great rivers flow silently.
- Sutta Nipata 3.725

Compassionate Hands Foundation (Buddhist aid in Myanmar) • Buddhist Global ReliefUNHCR

e: ben.dhammawheel@gmail.com..

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Paul Davy
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Paul Davy » Sat Aug 06, 2011 7:55 am

Sweet
"Do not force others, including children, by any means whatsoever, to adopt your views, whether by authority, threat, money, propaganda, or even education." - Ven. Thich Nhat Hanh

"Whether I were to preach in brief, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach in detail, Sāriputta, or whether I were to preach both in brief or in detail, Sāriputta, rare are those who understand." (A I 333, Sāriputtasutta)

chownah
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby chownah » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:06 pm

It sounds like a psychedelic drug whose action is specific to taste buds....the world will be a better place as soon as it is outlawed....
chownah

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby Lazy_eye » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:15 pm

alan wrote:There is a new consensus in dietary science, and it does not support the low fat vegetarian approach.


Alan,

Could you explain more about this new scientific consensus?

The consensus I'm aware of is that saturated and (even worse) trans fats should be minimized, and a moderate amount of unsaturated fats encouraged. Vegetarian diets are not necessarily low-fat, and diets that include meat are not necessarily high-fat, so it's possible to eat healthfully either way depending on what you choose.

The "good" fats can be obtained from avocados, sunflower or flax seeds, soybeans, walnuts and other non-meat sources, as well as from poultry or fish. The meat sources, however, also contribute higher levels of "bad" fat, and that's especially true of red meat.

I'm a fan of sunflower seed butter. More nutritious than peanut butter, and it's really yummy.

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manas
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby manas » Sat Aug 06, 2011 1:39 pm

chownah wrote:It sounds like a psychedelic drug whose action is specific to taste buds....the world will be a better place as soon as it is outlawed....
chownah
Hi chownah,
while I agree with you that messing with our already skewed perceptions is not good, I also remind you that those (mostly) corporate tools we supposedly elect to office called 'politicians' don't even have the slightest right to outlaw or prohibit any plant or fruit; these are all part of Nature, and it is up to individual human beings to know what the appropriate use of each plant is (should it be eaten, or not?). We don't need to be nannied by ninnies. At most they should just educate people if they think there is some risk to consuming any plant.

:namaste:
Then the Blessed One, picking up a tiny bit of dust with the tip of his fingernail, said to the monk, "There isn't even this much form...feeling...
perception...fabrications...consciousness that is constant, lasting, eternal, not subject to change, that will stay just as it is as long as eternity."

(SN 22.97)

morning mist
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby morning mist » Sat Aug 06, 2011 2:01 pm

Lazy_eye wrote:
alan wrote:There is a new consensus in dietary science, and it does not support the low fat vegetarian approach.

The consensus I'm aware of is that saturated and (even worse) trans fats should be minimized, and a moderate amount of unsaturated fats encouraged. ....
The "good" fats can be obtained from avocados, sunflower or flax seeds, soybeans, walnuts and other non-meat sources, as well as from poultry or fish. The meat sources, however, also contribute higher levels of "bad" fat, and that's especially true of red meat.

I'm a fan of sunflower seed butter. More nutritious than peanut butter, and it's really yummy.


Sunflow seed butter sounds tasty. Virgin olive oil is also one of the best sources of healthy fats.

Good fats

" Monounsaturated fats (MUFAs) lower total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol (the bad cholesterol) while increasing HDL cholesterol (the good cholesterol). Nuts including peanuts, walnuts, almonds and pistachios, avocado, canola and olive oil are high in MUFAs. MUFAs have also been found to help in weight loss, particularly body fat. "

Bad fats

"Saturated fats raise total blood cholesterol as well as LDL cholesterol (the bad cholesterol). Saturated fats are mainly found in animal products such as meat, dairy, eggs and seafood. Some plant foods are also high in saturated fats such as coconut oil, palm oil and palm kernel oil."

Good fats
"Polyunsaturated fats also lower total cholesterol and LDL cholesterol. Seafood like salmon and fish oil, as well as corn, soy, safflower and sunflower oils are high in polyunsaturated fats. Omega 3 fatty acids belong to this group." - HealthCastle.com
with metta,

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby octathlon » Sat Aug 06, 2011 5:17 pm

alan wrote:There is something you can add to your diet that will make you healthier and slimmer.

Could it be ... the right attitude? :
Donapaka Sutta wrote:When a person is constantly mindful, And knows when enough food has been taken, All their afflictions become more slender — They age more gradually, protecting their lives.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sun Aug 07, 2011 3:49 am

There are serious questions about the theory that saturated fats are the main culprit in the obesity epidemic, or that they contribute to heart disease. It is easy to research this.
I've been taking coconut oil for several years now and am much healthier for it. http://www.coconutoil.com/health_benefi ... ut_oil.htm[url][/url]
If you want to remain stuck in old thought patterns, there is nothing I can do. If f you are open to new ideas, read this and try it for yourselves.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby bodom » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:05 am

octathlon wrote:
alan wrote:There is something you can add to your diet that will make you healthier and slimmer.

Could it be ... the right attitude? :
Donapaka Sutta wrote:When a person is constantly mindful, And knows when enough food has been taken, All their afflictions become more slender — They age more gradually, protecting their lives.


Yes, moderation is the best medicine, the best supplement.

:anjali:
It’s only meditation when there are two minds:
Knowing-noting mind and observing mind.
If there is only one mind, ‘I’ is always there.
The object is not the dhamma,
The dhamma is the mind
That is being aware.

- Shwe Oo Min Sayadaw

alan
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:22 am

Not entirely accurate. There are ways to improve your health. You can act on them.

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David N. Snyder
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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby David N. Snyder » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:25 am

alan wrote:I've been taking coconut oil for several years now and am much healthier for it. http://www.coconutoil.com/health_benefi ... ut_oil.htm[url][/url]
If you want to remain stuck in old thought patterns, there is nothing I can do. If f you are open to new ideas, read this and try it for yourselves.


Thanks for the info. How about coconut milk? What is your opinion about coconut milk? I like coconut curry (mixing curry powder with coconut milk) with my stir-fry foods.

I have heard that coconut is also good for people with thyroid problems.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sun Aug 07, 2011 4:40 am

By all means eat a coconut milk curry every day. Don't buy "lite" coconut milk--it's just been mixed with water, to assuage those still obsessed with their fat intake.
Some fats are good! I'll keep saying this until people believe it.
I discovered coconut oil when I was living in the Philippines. They treat it as a health food. Which it is.

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Re: the great vegetarian debate

Postby alan » Sun Aug 07, 2011 5:08 am

The importance of medium chain triglycerides cannot be overstated. If you are serious about health, or have an entrenched position regarding the role of fats in the diet, you really need to understand this. But I can't do it for you. You will have to believe me, and look into this for yourself.


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